When I spoke with Ted at M&A a year or more ago, the pattern cost was about $9,000 each (one for the front, one for the rear). Amortizing that cost over 15 sets= $1200/set plus the wheels. Then there is the issue of who owns the patterns. If Ted retains ownership of the patterns, maybe this could become a more reasonable proposition. I would bet M&A is willing to be a little more flexible these days since everybodys business is hurting. Particularly so in Pinconning, MI.
Although we didn't talk specifics, from how I understood it, M&A would like to have the wheel as standard offering due to the continued interest in Cobras, and thus would retain the ownership of the patterns and be able to offer the wheel at a competitive price. The price would be in the neighborhood of the most recent Halibrand price discussed above, maybe less.
I'm still interested as well. I haven't spoken with anyone since my last post. I was told by M&A that anyone that is interested should call them, talk to them, and leave your name and phone number. There are still several people interested. A couple have contacted me, and I have told them to call M&A directly, and several have contacted M&A directly.
From my conversation with M&A, they would retain ownership in the patterns to keep the cost down to customers. They have also said that today's casting would be superior to castings made within the past decade.
Great! Those wheels would go great with your "ultimate engine."
And if anyone else has an interest, please contact M&A Castings. The more buyers, the better the deal gets for all of us. However, at this point, I would just be happy with a set.
I don't think their email delivery system is working. Please give them a call.
They're very nice to talk to, and they gave a lot of interesting additional info about Halibrand, their wheels, etc. Stupidly, I even told them I would buy two sets just to get this thing off the ground. They do have another buyer for two sets, which again, gave me the stupid idea to say "I'll take two!"
I am still interested in a set. I haven't spoken with Ted at M&A for a while. Any idea of what a ball-park price would be assuming a run of 10-20 sets?
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby American CSX 4241 - authentically built
Posts: 2,573
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Are people wanting these wheels for the weight savings (seems a strange reason given how light the cars already are, and how much more weight could be saved elsewhere) or for the finish?
If it's for the finish, why not just have some existing aluminum wheels redone? There are so many powdercoating options nowadays, you could have the gold finish, the dull black/grey finish, or a natural finish, and have it look dead nuts to an actual magnesium wheel without spending crazy money.
I did that on my CSX years back and the wheels look great. I opted for a satin matte clearcoat over the natural aluminum center, so it looks like a natural finish wheel but it will never oxidize.
Just food for thought. Reading this thread, it seems more people are looking for the "finish" than actual weight savings.
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Sal Mennella
CSX 4241, KMP 357 - sold and missed, CSX 4819 - cancelled, FFR 5132 - sold
I'm looking for the finish, which can vary between the Dow 7 chromate finish to the slightly oxidized look. Then there's the weight savings, I'm guessing about 20-25 lbs, and that they say "Halibrand" on them. And it would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Most people who look at my car think it's either got a chrome paint job, or it's an original, or don't know what it is at all. So, generally speaking, no one will have a clue that the wheels are real magnesium, but I will.
I am still interested in a set. I haven't spoken with Ted at M&A for a while. Any idea of what a ball-park price would be assuming a run of 10-20 sets?
Lew, if M&A kept the pattern ownership, then the cost would be low-to-mid $700's per wheel. He wanted about a 15 set commitment, but that didn't sound like a hard and fast number.
I thought you got a set from the seller out here in the SF Bay Area?
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby American CSX 4241 - authentically built
Posts: 2,573
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock
I'm looking for the finish, which can vary between the Dow 7 chromate finish to the slightly oxidized look. Then there's the weight savings, i guessing about 20-25 lbs, and that they say "Halibrand" on them. And it would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Most people who look at my car think it's either got a chrome paint job, or it's an original, or don't know what it is at all. So, generally speaking, no one will a clue that the wheels are real magnesium, but I will.
I'm guessing you mean 20-25 lbs savings for the whole set, not each wheel
Oh, and don't get me wrong, money no object I'd want them on my car too
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Sal Mennella
CSX 4241, KMP 357 - sold and missed, CSX 4819 - cancelled, FFR 5132 - sold
Everyone has their passions, but some are based on real features or attributes and some are, let's say, more ethereal.
While Hali's are a great brand, it is of course, a different company from the original, with different owners and different engineering objectives. After all, we are considering Hali's made by M & A, who are not Hali at all. Sort of like Yves St. Laurent?
i mean no disregard for M & A as i am sure they are great wheels and will buy at least a set when they become available, but not because they might say Halibrand, but because they are very very light.
From a performance point of view, when lateral adhesion is critical for lowest lap times and best control performance, it isn't possible to overstate the importance of lightest weight in the wheel, tire, drive-shaft and suspension componentry.
When the unsprung (that is, those suspension bits that are moving from contact with the road surface and not attached solely to the chassis/frame) weight is lower, the lower mass allows the bits to move up and down in response to road undulation with less delay, less tire compression (an undampened spring, after all) and less over-travel due to vertical momentum of the bit.
Most importantly, besides lowering the total stress and heat load on the shocks, the tire surface follows the road surface more closely and with less load variation, with less resistance to remaining in contact with the road surface. It is immediately obvious that more contact and more even contact with the road surface is valuable in generating both steering forces on the front end and total adhesion and grip on the rear.
So, less wheel weight provides imroved lateral grip, better turn-in on demand, less unnecessary variability in grip and better lap times as a result. Meanwhile, less overall weight is important, as has been stated, particularly if the vehicle has been already lightened within safe/rule-regulated limits.
As a byproduct of this less resistance to vertical movement, softer springs and shock settings can frequently be specified, providing both a better ride and even more adhesion, within the limits of the road surface roughness. When road surfaces are rough, like the Targa or off-road, less unsprung weight can also reduce total forces on all of the suspension attachment points, increasing thereby the likelihood of fatigue failure and other breakage.
So, real uber-lightweight mags are more than a purists dream. But, they were not always strong enough in the day and were subject to fatigue failures or cracking from striking other vehicles or road debris. Even a few spectacular accidents occurred when over-pressuring mag wheels after tire mounting, intending to "set the bead" or complete the rim seating on a wheel with insufficient soapy water on the inner wheel surface. A cracked mag rim is easily destroyed from the force of the steel-wire re-inforced tire bead striking the rim when it sets/seats. They can explode with great drama and have killed people, i have been told.
Like everything in life, proper technique can save a life, in addition to adding pleasure.
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Last edited by What'saCobra?; 07-25-2009 at 06:15 AM..
Lew , we are intrested in reproducing this wheel . We would like to know if there is still an intrest . We maybe willing to produce the patterns at our expense. If we can get enough orders for 15 sets .
Please call me sometime to discuss possible options. 989-879-2222
Regards , Ryan
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