tremec T-56 vs T600

[undy]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

lal Naja Art Have you looked at the super richmond 5 speed? The shift location is in the same place as the trans you have. The trans mount is 1" back of the trans you have. If you are looking to use the orginial shifter, it works nice. If racing I run a short shifter to the trans. This trans is good for the 600/600 rating.

Sooner or later Rick you're going to get someone to buy one of them darn Richmonds in spite of their price

[blykins]

He'd make a good salesman wouldn't he?

[undy]

Originally Posted by blykins

He'd make a good salesman wouldn't he?

Yep, dealership work's in the toilet these days so pimpin' Richmonds adds to the kitty.

[blykins]

Arthur,

For what it's worth, I think I can do a mid shift TKO 600 with the shifter in the spot that you need it. We'd have to use a McLeod shifter that's got a custom offset.

On the flip side, have you driven a car with a 427 style shifter location? You may like it after you get used to it.

[joyridin']

Arthur,

Be sure to measure carefully before you buy any trans. I put a T-56 in my Arntz/Butler and it was not an easy task. The rear trans mount is part of the cross frame, so the body of the trans has to be shorter than the distance from the cross member to the rear of the engine. Unfortunately, the T-56 has a huge body even though the length is only a few inches longer. I had to remove the whole cross section of frame, box everything in, and make a new cross member. I had the driveshaft shortened to about 6" from u-joint to u-joint...maybe it was 8". Lucky for us it has IRS so nothing really moves. On the T-56, it only has 1 mounting place for the shifter, so I used a GTO shifter and flipped it around. I mounted the actual shifter on the inspection cover. I would assume this is pretty close to the center mount on a TKO 600. This allowed me to use a shifter that looked like the original.

Also, my car has an external slave cylinder with a blowproof bellhousing. It should fit on yours also.

Good luck!

[mikeforte]

Hi Arthur,

I make a few external slave kits that are very low profile to the block or the tranny depending on the trans & release setup used.
I also am a Tremec Elite dealer and have all the Tremec transmissions and related products to install including flywheel, bellhousing & clutch kits.
As for hydraulic throwout bearings, I sell them and stock them too. They do work but the reliability factor is why I make external kits.
The midshifter at 12.65" and front shifter are available with offsets to fit more applications.

Originally Posted by lal Naja

Thanks for the advice.

I've tried to do the external slave with the smallest slave I could find. Just not enough room. I even made a custom length fork, custom bracket. Slave gets too close to the header pipe. No room for a bleeder, or even space to run a hose for a remote bleeder. I've read pros & cons on the internal hydraulic unit and I'm willing to take a chance with it.

My Jag rear end is 3.31:1 and the .8 overdrive seems like my choice too.

I just have to figure out what shifter option I need to take. My shifter is 9.5" From the bell housing/trans mounting surface. 7" moves it too far forward but I can have a shifter stick that bends backward. I have to seriously start making my measurements and see what conflicts I have. The 12.68 shifter location moves it too far back and I don't really like the curved forward look that the original had.

I love the location of my Super T-10 shifter and so I have to come to terms that a new location that may not be as visually pleasing.

Thanks for your comments,

Arthur

[mikeforte]

Hi Arthur,
Last note, I also am a WD for Richmond for over 20 years and know their product very well. Is this for a Chevy engine?

[mln385]

I guess the biggest question is what type of driving will you be doing?

If it is just for cruising to take in the sites and enjoy the ride then a 5 speed is all you need plus some.
If you are highway speeds then the added overdrive will save gas and rpms.

I took mine out yesterday for a cruise to enjoy the weather and the ride, a few spirited take offs but mostly leisure cruising. Rarely got into 5th gear as all the motor would do in this application is lug as I was at speeds under 50.

Mostly 3rd and 4th gear so if I had a 6th gear I would never use it. No need for it, the Roush 427Sr/Tw runs best at about 1800 + rpm otherwise it lugs.

Henry come on down and I will go over my car with you so you can make an informed determination.

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by lal Naja

Thanks for the advice.

I've tried to do the external slave with the smallest slave I could find. Just not enough room. I even made a custom length fork, custom bracket. Slave gets too close to the header pipe. No room for a bleeder, or even space to run a hose for a remote bleeder. I've read pros & cons on the internal hydraulic unit and I'm willing to take a chance with it.

My Jag rear end is 3.31:1 and the .8 overdrive seems like my choice too.

I just have to figure out what shifter option I need to take. My shifter is 9.5" From the bell housing/trans mounting surface. 7" moves it too far forward but I can have a shifter stick that bends backward. I have to seriously start making my measurements and see what conflicts I have. The 12.68 shifter location moves it too far back and I don't really like the curved forward look that the original had.

I love the location of my Super T-10 shifter and so I have to come to terms that a new location that may not be as visually pleasing.

Thanks for your comments,

Arthur

Perhaps I have a bell housing & clutch fork combination that is not totally suitable for my application and that is why I have a space problem for the external slave.

Arthur

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

lal Naja Art Have you looked at the super richmond 5 speed? The shift location is in the same place as the trans you have. The trans mount is 1" back of the trans you have. If you are looking to use the orginial shifter, it works nice. If racing I run a short shifter to the trans. This trans is good for the 600/600 rating.

No, I have not considered the Richmond. I think the external shifter linkage could present a whole new set of problems. In my application and you can see my trans/Hurst shifter on page three of my Photo Album in my Public Profile. It's mounted with a custom bracket to bring it forward. The Butler has the engine/trans pushed back as far as it can physically go. I guess I could create something that would do the trick, but internal shifter looks like a better engineered solution?

Thanks,

Arthur

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by mln385

I guess the biggest question is what type of driving will you be doing?

If it is just for cruising to take in the sites and enjoy the ride then a 5 speed is all you need plus some.
If you are highway speeds then the added overdrive will save gas and rpms.

I took mine out yesterday for a cruise to enjoy the weather and the ride, a few spirited take offs but mostly leisure cruising. Rarely got into 5th gear as all the motor would do in this application is lug as I was at speeds under 50.

Mostly 3rd and 4th gear so if I had a 6th gear I would never use it. No need for it, the Roush 427Sr/Tw runs best at about 1800 + rpm otherwise it lugs.

Henry come on down and I will go over my car with you so you can make an informed determination.

On Good days, driving to & from work. Visiting friends in the city, burbs & countryside. So street & highway cruising. Occasionally, three to four times a year Road America, Blackhawk Farms and other road tracks. It will never see a Drag strip. I want driving it to be a fun.

Arthur

[Excaliber]

Well the Butler does present a unique set of circumstances compared to other replicas. I can see where the whole trans, shifter, clutch release thing is a challenge with that car.

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by blykins

Arthur,

For what it's worth, I think I can do a mid shift TKO 600 with the shifter in the spot that you need it. We'd have to use a McLeod shifter that's got a custom offset.

On the flip side, have you driven a car with a 427 style shifter location? You may like it after you get used to it.

I have not driven a car with the 427 style shifter. I'm sure I could get used to it but I think the look is awkward. By mid shifter do you mean the 12.68 dimension?

I need to know more about the McLeod shifter and get some measurements to plot exactly how this is all going to work out.

Thanks,

Arthur

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Arthur,

Be sure to measure carefully before you buy any trans. I put a T-56 in my Arntz/Butler and it was not an easy task. The rear trans mount is part of the cross frame, so the body of the trans has to be shorter than the distance from the cross member to the rear of the engine. Unfortunately, the T-56 has a huge body even though the length is only a few inches longer. I had to remove the whole cross section of frame, box everything in, and make a new cross member. I had the driveshaft shortened to about 6" from u-joint to u-joint...maybe it was 8". Lucky for us it has IRS so nothing really moves. On the T-56, it only has 1 mounting place for the shifter, so I used a GTO shifter and flipped it around. I mounted the actual shifter on the inspection cover. I would assume this is pretty close to the center mount on a TKO 600. This allowed me to use a shifter that looked like the original.

Also, my car has an external slave cylinder with a blowproof bellhousing. It should fit on yours also.

Good luck!

My Cobra is a small block Chevrolet is yours too? If that's the case I would love to know what bell-housing, fork & slave you have.

The TKO is 1.96" longer than my ST-10 so that is why I'm considering it. The 8 shifter locations also is a good selling point. I should think I would be able to make one of them work.

Appreciate the comments,

Arthur

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by mikeforte

Hi Arthur,

I make a few external slave kits that are very low profile to the block or the tranny depending on the trans & release setup used.
I also am a Tremec Elite dealer and have all the Tremec transmissions and related products to install including flywheel, bellhousing & clutch kits.
As for hydraulic throwout bearings, I sell them and stock them too. They do work but the reliability factor is why I make external kits.
The midshifter at 12.65" and front shifter are available with offsets to fit more applications.

I guess we need to talk and share technical info. I've looked at your site and have been able to get a lot of info. But I still need to know all the critical stuff.

I sent your company an email the other day stating my situation and my needs. Perhaps I need to change my Bell housing too if mine is not the correct choice.

Arthur

[lal Naja]

Originally Posted by mikeforte

Hi Arthur,
Last note, I also am a WD for Richmond for over 20 years and know their product very well. Is this for a Chevy engine?

Yes Mike it is a small block Chevy.

Arthur

[Excaliber]

If I recall correctly it seems the TKO600 has up to THREE different locations for the shifter. It appears that you remove one of THREE existing metal covers on the top and then relocate your shifter as needed. I'm a little fuzzy on how the new shorter internal linkage requirement is met or whats involved.

Blykins might be able to clairify it a bit.

The forward facing shifter appears a bit awkward but works out surprisingly well, I like it and will probably stay with it for my new TKO600.

[joyridin']

Yes, mine has a SBC also. The T-56 is also just a few inches longer that the Super T-10, but the overall length of the trans wasn't the issue. It was the diameter of the body that caused all the problems. If you look at a ST10, the tail shaft of the trans is maybe 8-10" long, and the diameter of the body is relatively small. With the T-56, the tailshaft was only 2" long, and the diameter of the body is huge all the way back to the tailshaft. It was the body of the trans that hit the crossmember. Then there was the issue of the tunnel. The T-56 is a lot wider that the ST10, so I had to modify the trans tunnel quite a bit. My trans tunnel was removable, so it wasn't that bad. Not sure if yours is or not. I had to move the passenger seat over about 1.5", which as you know, that is a lot in these cars. It fit...barely.

As for the bellhousing, I think mine is a Lakewood, but I cannot be sure. I saw no lettering on the bellhousing. It looks like a Lakewood. Everything fits and there is room to bleed the slave cylinder. It is really tight, but nothing hits or gets excessive heat.

Maybe somebody has a drawing of the side view of a TKO 600 and a ST10? If the rear mount is exactly the same distance from the front of the trans as a ST10 or shorter, you might be able to get it to fit. I wish I had pictures to show you. You would see in a heartbeat what I was talking about...LOL

Ron

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

If I recall correctly it seems the TKO600 has up to THREE different locations for the shifter. It appears that you remove one of THREE existing metal covers on the top and then relocate your shifter as needed. I'm a little fuzzy on how the new shorter internal linkage requirement is met or whats involved.

Blykins might be able to clairify it a bit.

The forward facing shifter appears a bit awkward but works out surprisingly well, I like it and will probably stay with it for my new TKO600.

It's actually a lot more than three. The rear position alone has 2 spots, you can rotate the shifter 180 degrees to move it slightly forward, before making the big jump to the mid position.

And I agree with you on the forward facing shifter, in the car it is very natural and works very well. The mid-shift is very direct and actually feels too short and stiff for my tastes. We've done 3 over the years and 2 of them the customers like them but I think they would say they should have stayed with the rear but in the forward position of the rear.

[mattpatt]

Originally Posted by scotthei05

T56 - get the 2.29 first gear

Do you know who sells it? The part number? The torque rating? The ratios would be perfect for a street use cobra with 500+ hp sbf.

thx

Matt