Toploader 4 speeds : need your help

[desmo]

I have a problem with my transmission... Perhaps you can help me. I live in France and it's very difficult for me to make the right diagnostic, and to find the right parts/people to whom I can address my problem. Sorry for possible english mistakes...

My Cobra (Kirkham 427 SC) has only 4200 miles, equipped with a 427 FE Shelby American aluminium engine, that developps over 600 HP.

The gearbox is a David Kee, FORD Toploader 4 speeds, with a 8-1/2" Quarter Master Nascar Clutch.

I'm having some problems with the clutch which seems to "slide", it could be that the clutch discs have received oil either from the engine or from the gearbox, and that this could be the problem.

I think I have to change the seals, gasket, O rings (... ?) of both the crankshaft and the gearbox, as well as the clutch discs, perhaps even the complete clutch (which would be a pity since this clutch has only 4200 miles).

What is your advise ? Can you tell me who I can contact and what specific parts I need to order ?

Thanks to you all for your help.

Emmanuel
Paris - France

[blykins]

So the clutch is slipping?

What discs are you using in the Quarter Master clutch? Ceramic?

[desmo]

I do not know what kind of discs I have, what I can tell you is that I have a special "re-inforced" clutch because of the very powerfull engine. This special clutch comes from "levyracing", it was installed by the first owner to replace the initial one which was not strong enough for the engine.

The problem I have arises when the engine is hot. Sometimes when I pass the first gear the car has great difficulty to move on, and some other times it works normally.
Sometimes when I m driving at 100/120 mph, or less, I accelerate, the engine accelerate too, but not the car, and after the engine calms itself and the car starts to accelerate.
So the clutch realy seems to slide...

Any idea ???

Thanks

Emmanuel

[cobrakiwi]

Hi
Is there any oil dripping from the bell housing? The bell should have a drain hole in the center bottom. If oil is coming from the bell then your clutch may by oil soaked. Check that your slave cylinder is adjusted correctly, make sure the clutch fork has a little clearance and not pushing on the pressure plate.

[blykins]

Some of the button clutches are not meant for street use. If your clutch uses really high friction discs, they could wear quickly when used on the street due to the amount of slipping that you have to do to take off from a dead stop all the time.

cobrakiwi makes some good points: pull the inspection plate off the bellhousing and make sure you're not losing any fluid from anywhere and check to make sure you have proper throw out bearing clearance.

[desmo]

Thanks Cobrakiwi & Blykins. I'm going to have a look at the bellhousing but I do not believe that there is an inspection plate. I think not...

Cobrakiwi, do you think I need to install another clutch more adapted to road driving ? If there is oil on the clutch does this mean I need to change the seals / gaskets /o rings ?

[blykins]

BTW, I can provide clutch kits that will be able to support 650hp in just a regular style 11" Long pressure plate and clutch disc. The button clutches aren't really ideal for street use.

If you do a tear down and find out that your discs have been contaminated or your pressure plate has failed, it would give you another viable option.

If the discs are contaminated it could be that the input shaft seal is leaking, or possibly your rear main seal.

[mickmate]

When you depress the clutch pedal does it have some freeplay before it starts to disengage or give pedal resistance?

[desmo]

If I well understand what you say, the answer is no...
I just look and noticed that I have an oil leak between the bellhousing and the engine (not at the gearbox side).

[IMG][/IMG]

[blykins]

It may be worthwhile to go ahead and pull the transmission to see what's going on. The leak could be a number of things on an FE. It would also allow you to look inside and see if the discs are contaminated, or if they are just worn down and need replaced.

[desmo]

The problem I have is that I live in France... I need approx 10 days to ship the parts overseas and I can not leave the car in this state with my mechanic for such a long time. Some other pictures :

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Excaliber]

My thoughts:
There is nothing wrong with the trans. David Kee failures are very very rare, so I'm 99% sure we can rule that out.

The leak of oil in the picture is almost "normal" for an FE. It does not appear to have damaged or be a factor with the clutch. At this time I would rule out replacing gaskets and seals until you have more evidence.

I have lost GOOD clutches within 5,000 miles. The original owner lost the clutch, replaced it with something else and now it is worn again. Yes, that happens with a powerful engine, and it will happen again UNTIL you get the right clutch. I bought a couple of clutches before finding the right one, which I think I have now.

Contact B2Motorsports, Blykins (Brent) and work with on getting the right clutch setup this time. I suspect it should be the same one I have!

The oil leak could be from a number of places but NOT likely a rear main seal. This is simple, replace the clutch, again, like many of us have had to do. Form the pics the leak is NOT a rear main seal. More likely it is from the valve cover gaskets or rear of the intake or some other minor issue. The oil ALWAYS runs toward the rear and makes it LOOK like it's leaking from there, but it is not. Order the clutch disc and pressure plate, take the parts to a mechanic. Have the clutch replaced AND have the mechanic re-surface the flywheel before installing new parts. Tighten/Inspect valve cover's and intake for leaks.

[blykins]

Desmo,

I've sent you another PM.

[blykins]

Ernie,

You're right on the clutch choice....

I'm waiting to see if his flywheel is something funky for a Quartermaster, or if it will accept an 11" Long.

[Tom Kirkham]

Give Alain Boudet a call. His phone number is [33] 615 188 335
He lives in Paris and works with a very good Cobra mechanic. They work on most of the vintage Cobras that are raced in France.

[desmo]

Thanks Thomas. We had Steeven around 9 a.m. He was very helpfull and gave us your mail... I'm going to call Alain Boudet. I'll keep you posted. Thanks. Emmanuel

[BOURRET]

Originally Posted by desmo

I have a problem with my transmission... Perhaps you can help me. I live in France and it's very difficult for me to make the right diagnostic, and to find the right parts/people to whom I can address my problem. Sorry for possible english mistakes...

My Cobra (Kirkham 427 SC) has only 4200 miles, equipped with a 427 FE Shelby American aluminium engine, that developps over 600 HP.

The gearbox is a David Kee, FORD Toploader 4 speeds, with a 8-1/2" Quarter Master Nascar Clutch.

I'm having some problems with the clutch which seems to "slide", it could be that the clutch discs have received oil either from the engine or from the gearbox, and that this could be the problem.

I think I have to change the seals, gasket, O rings (... ?) of both the crankshaft and the gearbox, as well as the clutch discs, perhaps even the complete clutch (which would be a pity since this clutch has only 4200 miles).

What is your advise ? Can you tell me who I can contact and what specific parts I need to order ?

Thanks to you all for your help.

Emmanuel
Paris - France

I had a problem with oil coming from the front of my toploader, a good degreasing and the use of a good sealant solved this problem. My engine is a 482 Alu Shelby. I use my car both for road (including some city driving (traffic jams on the "peripherique") and drag. I usually change my clutch (a dual friction Centerforce) every 5000 miles and I have the flywheel re-surfaced every 10000 miles.

[desmo]

My car has 4200 miles... Then perhaps this problem is normal ?
I have to get used (I rod with a Porsche Turbo not so long ago) !

[Excaliber]

I wouldn't say it's "normal", but it happens sometimes to those of us with BIG motors that like the power! The MAIN THING is getting the right clutch for the way YOU drive, you will need an expert to help with that decision.