TKO Hard to Shift Into 2nd

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Patrick, shift your trans at 6500 and see what it does.

But there's no reason I would ever do that. Not only is it above my rev limiter setting, it's above my optimum shift points (even with a SFT cam). With a hydraulic cam like most of the guys have around here, they're not doing fast shifts above 5500RPM. Now, for serious drag racing, I agree trans mods are warranted.

[blykins]

Ok, Mr. Shift Point, at what rpm do you pull the handle? Six grand is not the "magic number" where the TKO decides not to shift....so if it slips in at 6000, it doesn't mean that it won't give you heartache at 6200. See what I mean?

My point is, that you can yank a T5 or a Toploader all day at 6500-7000 depending on which trans you got.....TKO's aren't that forgiving.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Ok, Mr. Shift Point, at what rpm do you pull the handle?

Well, since you asked. But, I agree with you Brent, if you're having hard shifts with the Tremec then having it tweaked is a smart idea. There does seem to be a good bit of variation with the TKOs.

[blykins]

It also has a little to do with flywheel and clutch size....but as a general rule, they don't shift well.

PS: I wouldn't rely too much on the computer stuff. ;-)

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

It also has a little to do with flywheel and clutch size....but as a general rule, they don't shift well.

PS: I wouldn't rely too much on the computer stuff. ;-)

I just shoot for six grand. But the flywheel point is a good one. Does my aluminum flywheel make the TKO shift better, or worse, at high revs?

[blykins]

What brand is it?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

What brand is it?

Uhhh, you know how much I needlessly pissed away on that Centerforce.

[blykins]

I just wanted to set you up on that one...... I thought it was a very nice lead-up....

Ultimately, what you want is a set of gear cones/synchronizer blocking rings that will effortlessly get up on each other and match rpms....and a clutch that is set up well enough that there is no drag on the shift.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

I just wanted to set you up on that one...... I thought it was a very nice lead-up....

Ultimately, what you want is a set of gear cones/synchronizer blocking rings that will effortlessly get up on each other and match rpms....and a clutch that is set up well enough that there is no drag on the shift.

A foundation nicely laid; all things being equal, does the lesser weight of the flywheel make any difference? I never see that mentioned in the threads where somebody complains about shifts. I still think it's either quality control at the factory or the trans was never broken in properly.

[patrickt]

Here's a typical example. You've got guys saying "I can't shift" and other guys saying "My stock TKO shifts high fine." http://forums.corral.net/forums/show....php?t=1224007

[blykins]

As long as the clutch is fully engaged and the trans works well, I don't see where it would. It's a separate system in my opinion. I haven't really thought about it all that much though.

It does seem like a heavier flywheel would be less likely to let the engine change rpm, just due to the rotating momentum....and a lighter one would let the engine get down to the lower rpm where the next gear shift would put it. I'll have to think about that one though...maybe someone will set me straight.

[Excaliber]

Wll Brent you know the specs on my TKO, since you sold it and the clutch/pressure plate to me. It's the "road race" version, which as I near as I can figure amounts to a .8 overdrive instead of a .6 overdrive. The first four gear ratios appear to be the same?

I also got the Tri-ax shifter upgrade and am using the stock "short throw" handle that came with the trans. Here's what I've found.

I can feel slightly more tension shifting into second with less tension in third and fourth. Not enough extra tension in 2nd that I ever noticed before THIS thread! At Infineon I was shifting at 6,400, shifting HARD too, with the SHORT shifter, stabbing the clutch and jamming the gears (no mercy). I actually had to slow down the shift a hair into 2nd AND 3rd because of the tires (SLICKS, no less) were breaking loose to hard. Real hairy when that happens coming out of a corner, darn near spun out and did get in the dirt doing that one on corner.

Maybe the lighting fast shifts have to do with the Tri Ax and the short shift handle, whatever, I LOVE THIS THING!!!! It and the new clutch really rock.

Stock 40 lb iron flywheel, by the way, but I don't give it enough time between shifts to even think about "slowing down".

[blykins]

I don't pay much mind to the Corral guys....90% of them are 16 years old over there.

Ernie, you getting any chatter with that sticky disc?

[Excaliber]

Sometimes if I let it out at just the right rpm and don't let it out fast enough, but nothing to speak off. One thing I like about the heavy flwheel is I don't have to give it barely any gas at all to take off. Just let out the clutch, it rolls forward nicely and then motor away casually, not a hint of chatter when I do that.

I wouldn't trade the peace of mind I have with that potent clutch for the risk of a weaker unit that wouldn't have any chatter under any circumstances.

First is still to low a ratio for my liking, I'm going to start experimenting with a second gear start, easy start, let it hook up and not burn the clutch or the tires and then roll on the throttle from there. I get awful wheel spin in first, even with the slicks. I know that can be really hard on the clutch, but I'm getting pretty fast at changing them out now.

[blykins]

The guy I sponsor has a 7.50 1/8th mile Mustang with one of my 347's in it....he runs this exact same clutch and it seemed like it was very, very streetable....no chatter or harsh engagement. But that car has a 5-speed and a 4.30 gear too. I was wondering how a lighter car with a higher gear would do with it. It's nice to have some customer experience to draw from.

[Excaliber]

I run the 1/8th in 7.98, for what it's worth. 3.31 rear gear.

[blykins]

He can run both the 7.00 and 7.50 class.....500hp 347, 4.30 gears with M/T slicks...

[Excaliber]

Ya know, the road race slicks I run (yellow letter Goodyears) are great on a road course, AFTER they get some heat in them. But they aren't "all that" when cold on a drag strip or a road course. Have to be very careful when cold. I would say they are only moderately better than cold Goodyear Bill Boards. In fact, the bill boards may be equal to the slicks in that regard, tough call.

...or I just got to much horse power (more like torque), one or the other. I'm a little concerned about trying some real drag slicks though, like M/T's, because I worry about breaking something in the drive line.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Uhhh, you know how much I needlessly pissed away on that Centerforce.

And the local oyster bar business was down 25% after that purchase too.

[elmariachi]

I am convinced (based on the sampling results taken from exactly ONE TKO installation in my life in my Cobra) that many of these shifting problems are somehow related to bellhousing alignment. I have realigned mine a couple times while having the tranny out for other issues and only with this last installation was I able to get the run-out to under .005. Generally it was around .007-.008. I also used a 303MC pilot bearing this time whereas previously I used the bronze bushings and WOW what a difference. It used to be very tough from 2nd to 3rd at anything above 4k RPMs, coming down from 4th to 3rd or going into reverse. Now its silky smooth at any RPM in and out of all gears. I also now get zero vibration in my shifter and earlier with the bronze bushings there was always some vibration.

Just my 2 cents....