Toploader oil debate???

davids2toys · #1 (**permalink**) 11-20-2011, 04:02 PM

I have done some searching around for the correct Top loader oil to use. I have seen on multiple occasions warnings about only using GL-4!
Do not use GL-5 or multiple rating oil

All I seem to find at the local stores, Advance auto or NAPA are the dual ratings and GL-5...cant find just GL-4

Anybody have thoughts on this?
Thanks...Dave

ERA Chas · #2 (**permalink**) 11-20-2011, 07:38 PM

Red Line MT 90-15 years worth behind 550HP.

RICK LAKE · #3 (**permalink**) 11-21-2011, 04:00 AM

davids2toys Dave if the trans was rebuilt and all new parts in it, I would just run a normal run of the mill gear lube through the trans for about 300 miles. This will wash out any metal partials and help breakin the syncro's of the trans. After this is choice. If you are just street driving and cruising, any semi syn oil will be fine. If you are going racing that another story and would run a different oil. 75/90w gear lube will work fine. Racing trans will run a lighter fluid like autotrans mission stuff. Looking for less drag and quicker shifting. Don't get crazy. I race and run 75/90 valvoline and change it every year. Check for metal on the drain plug, and install new fluid. The color is fine after 10-15 events. Biggest pain is installing the new fluid, need a pump or remove the tunnel of the car to fill. Rick L. Ps Dave I think the stuff you are looking for is old school of about 30 years ago. Try Dave Kee who rebuilds Toploader trannies.

davids2toys · #4 (**permalink**) 11-21-2011, 06:33 PM

I think regular non syn oil of 80w-90 weight should be fine, still have the GL-4/GL-5 issue though.
My tranny is 18 years old with 17K on it. I have no idea what it has in there for lube...works real good though!

RICK LAKE · #5 (**permalink**) 11-22-2011, 04:13 AM

davids2toys If you have no leaks, the trans is full to the plug hole, shifting is fine, put the plug back in the trans and go for a cruise. Bottom line, leave sleeping dogs lay. Don't start a problem where there is none at this time. Years are just numbers for time. I have 34 year rods, motor,crank, and t-15 trans in my jeep that I have not done anything too. It gets used for the bad snow storms. Add gas and drive. You are good. Rick L.

davids2toys · #6 (**permalink**) 11-22-2011, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

davids2toys If you have no leaks, the trans is full to the plug hole, shifting is fine, put the plug back in the trans and go for a cruise. Bottom line, leave sleeping dogs lay. Don't start a problem where there is none at this time. Years are just numbers for time. I have 34 year rods, motor,crank, and t-15 trans in my jeep that I have not done anything too. It gets used for the bad snow storms. Add gas and drive. You are good. Rick L.

Understood, and I am of the same school up to a point. This trans does have a leak so it at least needs to be topped off anyway...so, back to the problem, even at a minimum of topping of, it is not a good idea to mix lubricants especially since have NO idea of what is in there at present. My thought is to just start off fresh!

RICK LAKE · #7 (**permalink**) 11-23-2011, 03:51 AM

davids2toys Dave you said nothing about a leak??? Where is the leak? This will also tell us if we are pulling the trans for a repair. Rear yoke seal can be done in the car. If this is it check out the tailshaft bushing for play. Might need to replace that too. Top cover is a gasket, rtv will work fine if the surfaces are clean and the area gets a 24 hour total cure time. The rtv need to be at a min temp also. Might have to heat the garage to get a good cure. Shift fork seals are easy. The only seals left are the front input housing seal or tail shaft gasket. Would be easier to do on a bench. As far as the oil, recover it and save it after repairs. Run it through a strainer for any partials. As far as finding GL-4 gear lube. The only other place mighht be at a truck stop. The small amount of mixing fluids is not going to kill the trans. Rick L. Ps Dave happy holidays.

Clois Harlan · #8 (**permalink**) 11-23-2011, 05:51 AM

I run the 75/90 in my Cobra Toploader and have for over 10 years. works well on the track and off.

In my Daytona Coupe TKO 600 I removed all the fiber syncro's and replaced them with brass and in that trans I am running Castroil 30W engine oil. At least for now. I may go to 50w oil when I get it on the track after break in.

Clois

davids2toys · #9 (**permalink**) 11-23-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

davids2toys Dave you said nothing about a leak??? Where is the leak? This will also tell us if we are pulling the trans for a repair. Rear yoke seal can be done in the car. If this is it check out the tailshaft bushing for play. Might need to replace that too. Top cover is a gasket, rtv will work fine if the surfaces are clean and the area gets a 24 hour total cure time. The rtv need to be at a min temp also. Might have to heat the garage to get a good cure. Shift fork seals are easy. The only seals left are the front input housing seal or tail shaft gasket. Would be easier to do on a bench. As far as the oil, recover it and save it after repairs. Run it through a strainer for any partials. As far as finding GL-4 gear lube. The only other place mighht be at a truck stop. The small amount of mixing fluids is not going to kill the trans. Rick L. Ps Dave happy holidays.

Rick, thanks for all the info...I think it is the tail shaft gasket, the part held to the main body by approximately 6 bolts. This is not a huge leak and I have no interest in fixing it at the moment. I figured one day I will have to pull the tranny and I would address it then. It is only a few drops after sitting for a day or two. The tranny operates perfectly at this time!
As I said, the oil is 18 years old with 18,000 miles on it, I want to change it.
Same for the rear for that matter.
Dave

davids2toys · #10 (**permalink**) 11-23-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clois Harlan

I run the 75/90 in my Cobra Toploader and have for over 10 years. works well on the track and off.

In my Daytona Coupe TKO 600 I removed all the fiber syncro's and replaced them with brass and in that trans I am running Castroil 30W engine oil. At least for now. I may go to 50w oil when I get it on the track after break in.

Clois

75w-90 what brand and type

DAVID GAGNARD · #11 (**permalink**) 11-23-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

75w-90 what brand and type

Valvoline conventional oil in 75/90, recommeded by most toploader builders, mine is in a road racer,so I change it once a year.......

David

davids2toys · #12 (**permalink**) 11-23-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

Valvoline conventional oil in 75/90, recommeded by most toploader builders, mine is in a road racer,so I change it once a year.......

David

I believe this is GL-5 correct? I also have heard it has friction modifiers in it.
I actually think I have 2 qts of Valvoline on the shelf but they are 80w-90 conventional

RICK LAKE · #13 (**permalink**) 11-24-2011, 04:04 AM

davids2toys Dave Redline sell GL-4 in all different weights from 70/80 up to 80/140. It's about 13.50 a quart Goggle it, there are alot of places Autozone has a 20% off if you order it on the web look at Redline 50204 and 50304. The other one is Amsoil sell gallons and quarts of 75w-90 api/gl-4 (MTG) Prices vary and its a full syn. If you have a GM store check part # 12346190. This is a GL-4 BUT might have friction adders. Try tightening the bolts on the tail shaft housing, this may top the leak depending if it's a gasket or rtv leaking. Happy holiday Rick L.

DAVID GAGNARD · #14 (**permalink**) 11-24-2011, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davids2toys

I believe this is GL-5 correct? I also have heard it has friction modifiers in it.
I actually think I have 2 qts of Valvoline on the shelf but they are 80w-90 conventional

Just looked at the bottle,it says on the front SAE 75-90 Gear Oil, on the back is says GL-5 MT-1

The 80-90 conventional is fine......use it since you have it......I have some also,have used it when I couldn't find any 75-90 same thing on the back: GL-5 MT-1

I have never noticed any difference bewteen the 75-90 and the 80-90....trans shifts perfectly with either......

David

davids2toys · #15 (**permalink**) 11-24-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

davids2toys Dave Redline sell GL-4 in all different weights from 70/80 up to 80/140. It's about 13.50 a quart Goggle it, there are alot of places Autozone has a 20% off if you order it on the web look at Redline 50204 and 50304. The other one is Amsoil sell gallons and quarts of 75w-90 api/gl-4 (MTG) Prices vary and its a full syn. If you have a GM store check part # 12346190. This is a GL-4 BUT might have friction adders. Try tightening the bolts on the tail shaft housing, this may top the leak depending if it's a gasket or rtv leaking. Happy holiday Rick L.

Rick, I have actually called Redline, they recommend the 75w-90 NS(non slippery) for the Toploader, it is crated GL5 but he said that was closest to the the EP oil that was OE in the Toploader. Also has no friction modifier at all. Another option was Redline 75w-90 MT90 this is GL4. Problem is, they are both synthetic and as I have stated, I have read and heard to stay away from synthetic in the Toploader.
I have made sure the bolts were tight, made no differance. Would you happen to know the Torque spec on these?
Happy Thanksgiving to you too...Dave

davids2toys · #16 (**permalink**) 11-24-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

Just looked at the bottle,it says on the front SAE 75-90 Gear Oil, on the back is says GL-5 MT-1

The 80-90 conventional is fine......use it since you have it......I have some also,have used it when I couldn't find any 75-90 same thing on the back: GL-5 MT-1

I have never noticed any difference bewteen the 75-90 and the 80-90....trans shifts perfectly with either......

David

My problem with this is the GL5 rating, I have read on many occasion GL4 ONLY

RICK LAKE · #17 (**permalink**) 11-25-2011, 01:40 PM

davids2toys 42-50 pounds to the extendsion housing to case bolts. If bolts are new and have washers I would goto 45 ft. pounds of torque. older bolts would goto about the same. 50 sounds a little high to me even if the case is iron. I would also lock-tite the bolts with a low tension. Not sure if any of the holes have liquid holes but add teflon sealer to those bolts with same tork. Good luck. Rick L.

davids2toys · #18 (**permalink**) 11-25-2011, 05:46 PM

Thanks Rick, I will add this to the winter to do list...LOL

zrayr · #19 (**permalink**) 11-27-2011, 09:17 AM

I've got 45,000 miles on a toploader that was rebuilt by David Kee about 9 years ago. I have always used Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil in the toploader. Although others have reported issues when shifting rapidly when using a synthetic oil, I have had zero problems in this area. I originally tried the synthetic oil as an experiment, but mainly for the wear-resistance it offers. I've used both the 75w-90 and the 75w-140 with equal positive results. And no leaks either.

I recently installed the original T-10 transmission back into the car. Curious as to how the toploader had fared I removed the top plate and inspected the gears.

They all looked new. I urge you to try Mobil 1. If you don't like it for whatever reason, just drain and refill with the conventional oil of your choice. No harm done.

I'm also using the Mobil 1 gear oil in the traction loc 9" rear end. No need for a friction modifier additive as the Mobil 1 gear oil comes with it.

Gear Lubricants

Z.

davids2toys · #20 (**permalink**) 11-28-2011, 06:56 PM

This stuff can drive you nuts!
I know this may seem stupid, but, what exactly is a traction loc? I have the Salisbury Jag posi rear.
Dave