FE / TKO-600 Clutch Problems.

[johnkn]

Greetings all, First post here..

I'm trying to resolve what appears to be a clutch related issue with a 68.5 428CJ Mustang and figured that you guys probably had the largest installed base of TKO transmissions on Ford FE motors of any forum around. Here's the deal

• Original 4 speed car fresh out of restoration, stock rebuild
• All stock Ford clutch linkage, Bell housing, CJ release lever, Z bar, etc.
• Complete TKO-600 conversion from Keisler with SPEC phase 2 diaphram clutch

For months we've had a ton is issues with wrong parts being supplied, first the wrong disk, then wrong TO bearing, now I suspect we have the wrong PP or a mix of 'large' hole vs 'small' hole PP and/or TO bearing.

If I adjust the free play so that I have 1" or so of free pedal (like my other 5 speed GT350 and BOSS2 car), I can not get the car into gear when running, not even close. If I adjust the linkage to be able to shift (and even then it's hard), the TO bearing is WAY into the clutch fingers at all times, so far in that it's hard to adjust the linkage.

The original PP they sent me was the 'large' hole version with the fingers curving out toward the transmission. We never got to fire that up because they shipped the 'small' hole TO bearing that tried to push right through the finger opening. The fingers on the current 'small' hold PP curve back in toward the flywheel.


Wondering if I would ever have a drivable car again i gave up and ordered a new McLeod 12" diaphram kit advertised to work with the 428 CJ and aftermarket trans (1 1/8" IP 26 spline). It has yet to arrive. Visiting this site, I realize that I should have contacted Brent to purchase a new kit, I've sure he's been through this many, many times.

I have high confidence that all the linkage, pedal, Z bar, etc is correct and is virtually new, even replaced the Z bar thinking (hoping) it was tweaked. No such luck.

When the new clutch arrives I'll compare the hight of the fingers off the flywheel, and the TO bearing height.


Seems that the existing clutch requires more travel than the stock linkage will provide. McLeod also has adjustable TO bearing I could try, perhaps the existing set up has the "U" end of the release lever too far forward at rest and it in a overcenter situation..

I also notice that I can move the end of the release lever up and down (toward the ground) a inch or more as it moves on the "L" pivot inside the bell. The other end of the release bearing tends to want to walk off the bearing on one side during its travel and pop out of the retaining clip..


Sorry for the book, just been fighting this crap since August.

Any suggestions?

Thank you....

[blykins]

John,

You did well to order up the McLeod clutch. I supply clutches and drivetrain parts to almost every combination out there, including vintage Mustangs like yours.

The first thing I would double check would be if the TKO has the short input shaft installed. That has to be done to let it work with the depth of a factory Toploader bellhousing.

The 11.5/12" McLeod diaphragm pressure plate is a good choice. I would pair it with a 260173 or a 260573 (if you're over 500hp) disc. You can use a 16031 throw out bearing with it and I usually spec a 16932 clutch fork as well. You should have no issues with your setup.

If have any other snags, feel free to post here. There are a ton of savvy guys on here that can lend a hand/ear. Feel free to give me a call at any time as well.

[johnkn]

Thanks Brent,

The McLeod kit I ordered was a 75236. This will be a <500HP project for sure as it's stock-ish rebuilt with stock manifolds, intake, original carb, etc.

I did order the short IP shaft TKO from Keisler and it's reflected on the invoice and the TKO does physically bolt up to the bellhousing, but with all the issues I've had, nothing would surprise me. Anyone know what the correct 'short' input shaft length is from the mounting face of the transmission to the tip?

I'll post when I receive the new kit and measure against the existing non-working SPEC.

Thanks all, greatly appreciated.

[blykins]

The standard length TKO input shaft is about 7". I'm thinking the short shaft is about 5/8" shorter than that.

I would mock it up just to be on the safe side. It's a quick easy measurement to check and if something were askew, the input shaft would put pressure on the thrust bearing.

[johnkn]

Keisler reports that the mating surface of the trans to the tip of the IP shaft should be 6.52". I'll measure everything and take a hard look inside the bell when the McLeod arrives and I pull this thing apart. Boy I hope this fixes the problem.

Thanks all....

[johnkn]

I received the McLeod kit 75236. Opening the box, the overall size of the TO bearing looks small across the back where the retaining clips are (like the non-working SPEC TO bearing presently in the car) as opposed to a stock TO bearing for a 428 CJ with top loader that looks a somewhat wider.

The "U" on the CJ release lever is a bit wider than the standard FE lever. Anyone know if there a CJ specific TO bearing I should use when running a TKO?

The CJ lever looks like it tried to walk off the small SPEC bearing, part of my original problem. I don't want a repeat.

Thanks
.

[blykins]

You sure you don't have a clutch fork for a 1-3/8" input?

I normally use a 16932 McLeod clutch fork with these applications.

[johnkn]

It's all original Cobra Jet linkage. Fork is a NOS C8OA-7515-D just like this one:

NOS 428CJ MUSTANG & SHELBY GT500 CLUTCH FORK | eBay

[blykins]

That's why you're having trouble...

That fork is for a 1-3/8" input shaft.

A TKO/small Toploader uses a smaller throw out bearing.

The McLeod 16932 fork is what you need...$35....or a factory small input clutch fork for an FE.

[mreid]

Excellent troubleshooting, Brent! Hopefully, John will buy the correct fork from you.

[johnkn]

Thanks Brent, this whole ordeal has been a nightmare. Keisler has no idea what they're doing. We received the wrong disk first, then the wrong TO bearing that pushed through the 'large hole' PP, then a new kit that they claimed would work. Still doesn't work. From day one 10 months ago I told them this was a stock 428CJ with all original linkage, etc.. They never mentioned a word about the fork.


If I use that McLeod lever I'll need a different adjustment rod and perhaps other stuff as the CJ adjustment rod actually passes through the hole in the clutch fork as opposed to resting in the dimple of the McLeod fork. Looks like a small block adjustment rod will work that fits over the 'pin' on the lower Z bar and is pointed on the other end to engage the dimple in the fork.



Will the McLeod lever you suggest work with the stock CJ bellhousing and stock pivot?

Think there's any chance I can change the fork by removing the bell access plate? Wondering if I can slip it under the TO bearing clips. As I mentioned, the stock fork did slip out of the bearing clip once, I was able to get it clipped back in from the access hole.

Right now I have the SPEC clutch and small TO bearing installed with the CJ fork, it would be great to replace the fork and have this work without pulling everything apart.

THANKS

[blykins]

The McLeod fork uses a long spring tab that clips into a the pivot in the bellhousing. The pivot should be an "L" or "T" shaped bracket with a little slot in it. The fork's spring tab clips into that slot on the pivot.

There are two major types of vintage Ford fork pivots. The 1st one is the one that I just described. The second one is just a wire spring clip, I think home in most big block Galaxies.

As for changing the fork out in the bellhousing with the bearing already installed, I think it would be a no-go unless the transmission was out.

But you were going to change the clutch kit too though, right?

[blykins]

[Avmaviator]

I have a brand new McLeod lever if you need one. I bought it when Brent and I were troubleshooting a clutch problem too and never needed it in the end. Let me know if you want it. (our problem ended up being a pressure plate housing height issue).

[Cobranut]

Question for Brent: You mention the short input shaft for the FE. Are you referring to just the pilot area being slightly too long and bottoming in the crankshaft bore?
I remember having to cut a bit (maybe 3/8") off the pilot when installing my TKO to my 427SO.

I'm considering swapping in a road race geared TKO and I'd like to know if it will need the same minor mod.
Also, does my shaft having been cut preclude it being used in any other application, as I'd like to sell it but don't want to mislead a potential buyer.

Thanks,

[blykins]

There are two styles of TKO input shafts, factory length and shortened. The short input transmissions have had short input shafts installed along with shortened input bearing retainers. When they shorten them, they cut the end off the pilot end, extend the pilot further down, and respline the end of the shaft.

It sounds like you used a regular length TKO, but just had to whack off the end of the pilot so that it wouldn't touch the crankshaft. Sometimes, in certain cases, that has to be done.

If you could tell me exactly which bellhousing you're using, I could give you a better idea of what you're looking at....Quicktime (RM-6056 or RM-6057), Lakewood, etc...

[Cobranut]

I have a Lakewood steel bellhousing, and there is an adapter plate (approx 1/2") between the trans and bellhousing.
I built my car in 1999-2000 so it's one of the original TKO's with the 26 spline input. I don't remember them having different length input shafts for Ford back then.

Thanks again,

[blykins]

They didn't.....but you could buy the short input kits and do it yourself.

There's more than 1/2" difference between a regular length input and a short one...that's why you had to cut the end off of the input shaft.

[FUNFER2]

Don't believe Brent !

Actually,.....do the opposite. He knows what he's doing !

One question for all of us. At what HP/TQ & clutch, should we use a hydraulic,.... clutch ?
I've never used one and heard from a few people that their a pain ?

[Cobranut]

Kevin,

I believe the original Cobra, as well as most replicas, use a hydraulically actuated clutch.
Most newer cars do too.
They eliminate much of the friction inherent in mechanical or cable clutch linkages, making the clutch action smoother and easier.