Centerforce Pressure Plate failed

[bobcowan]

I was on a 6 day road trip, and developed an engine problem. The car was running great - smooth, even, good mileage, not even warm. We came down out of the mountain pass, and parked in a small town for lunch. After lunch, I got back on the roadway. When I hit the gas to get into traffic, suddenly things changed.

The engine developed a significant vibration, and ran poorly. I pulled over when I could, and checked things out. It had a significant engine vibration around 2300 rpm's, and would not run well at all above that - popping and cracking.

It was clearly missing on one cylinder, and We tracked it down to cylinder #3 by unplugging injectors. Spark is great - a good 1" bright blue spark. After messing with the injector plug, I got that cylinder to work again. So it's a bad injector that needs to be replaced, or a bad harness.

BUT.... the vibration remained. it started around 2300, and fades off around 2700. Anything above or below that and it runs great - smooth, even, sounds good, and decent fuel economy. But, the vibration is significant.

These are the things I tried in the hotel parking lot that did not help:
-- Removing the fan belt
-- Tightened the balancr bolt
-- tightened the pulley bolts
-- swapping spark plugs
-- checked the ohms on the cables
-- Swapped injector plugs/wires (batch fired).
-- Checked compression - finger test only, it was getting some compression
-- visually inspected all the springs and valve train
-- Adjusting the clutch cable.

It is clearly engine related. It's easily reproducable in the parking lot. If I run the car up to 3,500 rpm's, push in the clutch and let it roll, it resolves. It's rpm related.

Doesn't matter what gear it's in, and is not affected by clutch actuation.

So, I drove the car, just kept it out of that magic rpm range. Sometime that was tough to do. But it continued to run well for the next few days.

On Friday morning, the engine started but was rough. Would run well at all. Pulled 1 through 4 plugs, and they were fuel fouled. Cleaned them up, and got the car going again. Once it warmed up, it ran great again - smooth, even, good gas mileage, no hiccups.

Except for that continued and unchanged vibration.

When I got home, I did a compression check, and all cylinders were almost exactly the same. Exscept for one that was a bit higher than the others.

Then I pulled the right head off. The head, block and pistons looked fine, except for being rich. Plugs were fouled like it was running rich. The O2 sensor is in the right bank, and was reading a steady 14.0-14.5.

Pulled the motor out, and inspected the clutch assembly. This is my Centerforce clutch, that's been in the car only 3 years; <15K miles.

3 bolt holes showed cracks like this one:




and this looks pretty bad.



And here you can see that the weights are waaaaay off center.



The clutch disc and flywheel look great.

I will replace this clutch hat with another Centerforce - only because I have it sitting here on the shelf. But when I overhaul the engine this winter, I'll install something else. Probably a Spec 3, or maybe a Ram HD.

[blykins]

This gives me even yet another reason to hate Centerfarce junk.

[Jeff Frigo]

Agreed.

[undy]

Pat, Pat, what say ye?? O' purveyor of new junk-yard parts.

[RICK LAKE]

bobcowan Bob you should send pictures to centerforce an ask for new parts. This is a deffective pressure plate or poor material and see what they say. Raise some hell, maybe you get a new one. If that doesn't work, cause some trouble. If you get a new clutch, sell it and go with a Brent setup. You should look at the twin disc. I swear you will like it, soft pedal, no slipping, locks and holds. No sliding weights either. Lets see if they stand behind the product or just behind the owner for some R&R, (ram it and repeat). Rick L.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

Pat, Pat, what say ye?? O' purveyor of new junk-yard parts.

That's crap alright. You could spot that through the fork hole, too.

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by blykins

This gives me even yet another reason to hate Centerfarce junk.

Notice in one picture you can see the Valeo name. Valeo makes more clutches than probably any other company on the planet. If you go to the Valeo web site, you find they make the entire thing. Not just the basic hat, but the whole thing. It's not really a Centerforce part, it's a Valeo part, and Centerforce simply puts their name on it. I wonder who owns Centerforce?

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

bobcowan Bob you should send pictures to centerforce an ask for new parts. This is a deffective pressure plate or poor material and see what they say. Raise some hell, maybe you get a new one.

I planned to do just that. I doubt they'll do anything about it, though

Originally Posted by patrickt

That's crap alright. You could spot that through the fork hole, too.

Actually, I did. I used a See Snake, and spotted both the crack and the fracture.



I find more uses for the See Snake than I ever imagined. SeeSnake® micro

[blykins]

Yes, Valeo does make pressure plates for lots of manufacturers including RAM & McLeod, but the difference is that they make different types of pressure plates. There are OEM replacements and then there are performance plates. Guess which one Centerforce uses...

Is this the pressure plate that you posted pics of a few months back showing the blue spots on the face surface?

[bobcowan]

No, this is a newer/different one. Same part number, though.

Centerforce claims this is built for high power applications. But the Valeo web site reports only a 15% increase in holding force compared to stock replacement. This isn't the stock replacement part, it's one step up from that. But according to Valeo, it's not their high performance version.

I was looking at the Spec web site yesterday. The Spec 3 looks to be what I need, rated at 650 ft/lbs. Not a bad price for that, either. The Ram HD set up looks pretty good, for a little more money.

I'd love to have a dual disc clutch, but that's way out of my price range.

[blykins]

Can't beat a RAM...lots of Club Cobra guys running around with my RAM clutch kits.

I've used the Spec stuff before and they go nuts with their disc materials. For a 650hp rating, they will probably reach for a cross/paddle style disc with a sintered iron material. On/off engagement, chatter, you name it.

The RAM Powergrip HD would probably give you 100hp or so on the safety factor and are very streetable.

[lovehamr]

Good thing you got to it when you did. Looks like things were about to get ugly.

Steve

BTW Brent, that McCloud clutch that you got for me (to replace another pos CF) with the metalic faces and sprung hub works great!

[DonC]

Bob:
Always troubling to see this kind of part failure. Looks like your luck held since the whole thing didn't go south on you on the road. Would have been a bear to take care of at say 12,000 ft on the side of the road with the wind blowing 40 mph and 55 degrees. If it had happened at Steamboat Springs you could have paired up with Mike and his throwout bearing and maybe gotten a group rate.
Hope the manufacturer steps up with replacement parts.
DonC

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

I find more uses for the See Snake than I ever imagined. SeeSnake® micro

I like that, and my kids are always trying to find something to buy me. Is this the one you have? I see it on Amazon for less than $200. Amazon.com: Ridgid 25643 SeeSnake Micro Inspection Camera: Home Improvement

[blykins]

Steve, does it chatter at all?

Patrick, I use a Milwaukee scope that I bought at Home Depot. It comes in very handy for looking down dual and single plane intakes to make sure the ports are lined up good. I also will use it in the drain plug hole to triple check my pan/pickup clearance.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Patrick, I use a Milwaukee scope that I bought at Home Depot. It comes in very handy for looking down dual and single plane intakes to make sure the ports are lined up good. I also will use it in the drain plug hole to triple check my pan/pickup clearance.

This one? It looks like it might be even better from the description. And it's only $129. M12 Lithium-ion Cordless M-Spector 360 Inspection Camera (Tool Only)-2313-20 at The Home Depot

[blykins]

Yep, that's it. Nice big screen, with a light on the end of the snake. I give colonoscopies on the side.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I like that, and my kids are always trying to find something to buy me.

I'd suggest to them an electric chair...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

I'd suggest to them an electric chair...

Well, I guess that's better than a tie....

[joyridin']

Luk is another one that makes the stamping for Centerforce. I have seen a lot of them.

[undy]

Originally Posted by blykins

I give colonoscopies on the side.

You can't put a price on a lil' hind-sight... I know, you're trying to put this behind you