Leaking Toploader gasket

[davids2toys]

Nasty cover! Looks like I will be putting some elbow grease to this thing before sealing it up forever

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Very cool and different! What did you use for the vent cap and how did you crimp it?

I bought it that way from David Kee

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Nasty cover! Looks like I will be putting some elbow grease to this thing before sealing it up forever

Wire wheel on a 4" grinder should do it just fine!

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

I have one question,. While cleaning the gasket surfaces, I noticed a plug with a Phillips head. It wasn't tight so i took it out to clean it and re-install with thread locker. I discovered a spring underneath this thing and maybe it is loose by design. Decided to ask the experts before doing something stupid. So, what is this thing for and what is the procedure for correctly installing it
Dave

Anybody?

[RockBit]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Anybody?

You need to ask Jac Mac. I believe he can answer this.

[Bernica]

Or call Dave Kee.

[blykins]

That screw holds a spring that keeps pressure on the shifter detents. If it's a fairly new trans and the screw is flush or a little under the gasket surface, then you'll be fine.

[Jac Mac]

Ditto to Brent in above post... FYI there are some models of Top Loader that simply use a longer spring in this position that is retained by the cover, any attempt to use the screw on that spring/type will result in 1st & 2nd being very difficult if not impossible to shift.

[davids2toys]

Thank you Brent and JacMac,
Yeah, I thought it was flush with the tranny deck surface when I took it out. I guess no need to worry about it backing out because of the top cover serving as a stop.
Dave

[davids2toys]

Everything is all clean and ready to go back together. actually thinking of skipping the paper gasket and just using the Permatex Ultra grey as I did with the rear end cover. Originally I was just going to put some of it on both sides of the paper gasket as a dressing and Torque it to 15 ft lbs.
If you use the Permatex as the sole gasket, it is a whole different set of instructions per the tube. Tighten until squeeze out, wait one hour and tighten 1/4-1/2 more turns. That is all well and good, but if you have the situation where the threads need to be sealed, I would then think: mark fastener positions, pull all fasteners after the 1 hour period and coat threads with sealer, then tighten 1/2 turn past the marked position.
Any thoughts on this?

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Everything is all clean and ready to go back together. actually thinking of skipping the paper gasket and just using the Permatex Ultra grey as I did with the rear end cover. Originally I was just going to put some of it on both sides of the paper gasket as a dressing and Torque it to 15 ft lbs.
If you use the Permatex as the sole gasket, it is a whole different set of instructions per the tube. Tighten until squeeze out, wait one hour and tighten 1/4-1/2 more turns. That is all well and good, but if you have the situation where the threads need to be sealed, I would then think: mark fastener positions, pull all fasteners after the 1 hour period and coat threads with sealer, then tighten 1/2 turn past the marked position.
Any thoughts on this?

I think your are way over thinking it IMHO.

[Jac Mac]

The gasket also acts as a baffle between the lube and the original breather hole in the top cover, as long as you have now blocked that original breather hole now that you have fitted the replacement breather in the tail housing you should not have a problem. However be aware now that you have no gasket that the 'feel' as you tighten the bolts will be different since there is no gasket to compress or squash.

With regard to checking ratios its quite simple with the top cover removed.
Look at the gear on input shaft at front of case next to the front input shaft bearing, if the tooth outer dia is virtually the same as the OD of input shaft bearing its a close ratio ( 2.32/1 low )....... if its about 1/4" smaller in OD than the input shaft bearing its a wide ratio ( 2.78/1 low by the look of your earlier pic of the phillips head detent screw you can just see the gear at front being noticeably smaller than brg, so it looks like you have wide ratio)

Also back in the 62 / 68 era with the Nascar stuff and T44 transaxle for the GT40 MKII & MKIV there were many more ratio options for these box's, about six different options IIRC

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I think your are way over thinking it IMHO.

I understand why you would/could think that. Also why it is YOUR opinion. Maybe I lack the experience you or others have, so I ask people who are smarter than me in any particular area. I like to do things right the first time. I don't like ripping things back apart to do it right the second or third time, especially if the interior has to come back out...no thanks!
You know what they say about stupid questions right?
You also know what they say about opinions

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Jac Mac

The gasket also acts as a baffle between the lube and the original breather hole in the top cover, as long as you have now blocked that original breather hole now that you have fitted the replacement breather in the tail housing you should not have a problem. However be aware now that you have no gasket that the 'feel' as you tighten the bolts will be different since there is no gasket to compress or squash.

With regard to checking ratios its quite simple with the top cover removed.
Look at the gear on input shaft at front of case next to the front input shaft bearing, if the tooth outer dia is virtually the same as the OD of input shaft bearing its a close ratio ( 2.32/1 low )....... if its about 1/4" smaller in OD than the input shaft bearing its a wide ratio ( 2.78/1 low by the look of your earlier pic of the phillips head detent screw you can just see the gear at front being noticeably smaller than brg, so it looks like you have wide ratio)

Also back in the 62 / 68 era with the Nascar stuff and T44 transaxle for the GT40 MKII & MKIV there were many more ratio options for these box's, about six different options IIRC

Yes, understood about the gasket and yes, I will be sealing the little hole in the cover. So if I was to use only sealer I would follow directions on the tube. I normally don't use the "feel" technique if I can avoid it, I try to use a Torque wrench when possible. Going with grey sealer only would eliminate the Torque wrench anyway because you would just squeeze out all the sealer. That is why the special directions on the tube.
I had already established the wide ratio by counting the second gear teeth as was suggested by Bernica earlier in this thread. Your way is nice to know also. Knowledge is power!!!
Thanks

[davids2toys]

So following up...a few things I have learned along the way after to talking to David Kee and Permatex
I called David originally to order the breather and a few other things. We had a brief discussion about gasketing and sealing the bolt threads. Then I called Permatex. I did not know all their products only have a two year shelf life. You can use the Ultra as a stand alone with wait time or as a dressing with no wait time or you can wait a little if desired. They advised waiting a bit after finger tight. I also learned they have changed their directions, it is torque to spec, no more 1/4 to half turn after waiting an hour. Their directions on their site are all screwed up and they know it. All the Ultra products are used the same way yet all their directions are all different. It is wait one hour after finger tight, then Torque to spec. Wait 24 hours before adding fluid and operating. The word "rigid" for the Ultra grey application is for small foreign precision made engines where the parts are not shifting around. For our type of applications, they would recommend the Ultra black, "it is the same as the grey only much more flexible". I have had good luck with the Ultra grey and I will stick with it. They also highly recommend not using this product for threads on fasteners for a few reasons including needing air curing. They recommend their thread sealant with PTFE for threads. Also, anytime you used anything on the threads it acts as a lubricant and your Torque figure needs to be adjusted (reduced) for this. He was guessing roughly by about 20%. I went on line and found lots of information backing this up. Anti seize was the worst offender needing the maximum amount of adjustment. I then called David back for further clarification. He uses Permatex Ultra grey as a skim coat dressing on/with the paper gasket. He also fills up all the threads of the bolt with the Ultra. He torques them to 15. No wait time or anything else. Of course everything very clean. Ne told me he had customer leaking issues with the use of the PTFE product and uses the Ultra to remedy customer leaking issues. He said when he needs to go back in and take something apart that was sealed with the Ultra, the threads range from either powdery or sometimes still slightly uncured , but they don't leak! He also seals the breather hole from inside the cover, a blob about the size of a penny. "Even if it was to fall off, it won't get past the gasket and go into the tranny"
So, I think I will follow the David Kee tried and true procedure with one modification. I will reduce my Torque figure 25% so it will be about 12 ft lbs.
Hope this helps anybody interested in this type of info.
Dave

[Anthony]

I have used that indian head gasket shellac for years, using a thin coat, and it always seals.

[davids2toys]

Did something happen to the site after this last post. My follow up posts with pics are not here?