Leaking Toploader gasket

DanEC · #1 (**permalink**) 11-17-2013, 04:52 PM

My rebuilt toploader is seeping a few drops of lube at the main case to tailhousing gasket. I snugged up the bolts but still a drop now and then. I'm still putting the car together and don't have the transmission tunnel in so I have pretty good access. As a Bubba fix I was wondering if it is possible to drain the lube, loosen the tailhousing bolts and slide the tailhousing back a half inch or so to clean up the area and apply some Permatex #2 on the gasket and bolt it back together? Is this possible? An engine rebuilder built it for me and it's not bad enough to pull out and take back to him. I've not pulled one of these apart before thus the question.

Chaplain · #2 (**permalink**) 11-25-2013, 02:04 PM

Yes use a thin coating of permatex gasket maker (blue) on both sides of the gasket and thread sealer on the bolts and you will solve the problem.

DanEC · #3 (**permalink**) 11-27-2013, 05:55 AM

It looks like it was the lower tailhousing bolt that was actually leaking. I drained the case and sealed the bolt threads and cut a gasket to go under the bolt washer. I re-filled the gear oil yesterday so I should know in a couple days if that did the trick.

Thanks

davids2toys · #4 (**permalink**) 06-17-2016, 11:32 PM

So Dan, did it work?
Here is my situation. I thought I had the same problem as you with my Toploader. I tightened up the tail shaft section but they were already very tight. now that I have the interior out including the tunnel,l I noticed the top is wet and it is seeping from there! I snugged up the bolts, they were not tight at all.I would like to install a new gasket. Is this as straightforward as it looks or is there a surprise waiting below?
Does anybody know the part number for the Gasket I need. Also a Torque spec for the bolts?
Thanks...Dave

davids2toys · #5 (**permalink**) 06-18-2016, 09:38 AM

I thought this was going to be some hard to find part for some reason. Easy find thru Google. It is Fel pro TS-13405 for the whole gasket set.
Now I just need the Torque figure for the bolts? Is there any sealant I should be putting on this gasket or just the plain gasket?
Dave

DanEC · #6 (**permalink**) 06-18-2016, 10:30 AM

Dave - My top plate still leaks after re-sealing a couple of times. I straightened the lid flanges and basically tried re-sealing the original gasket. Still seeps not unexpectedly. Sometime I need to try a new gasket. You wouldn't think it would take much to keep 90 wt gear lube from leaking - but it seems to always find a way. I would use some sort of gasket sealer/dressing but I'm not sure what would be best. Lately I've tried Permatex Fuel Resistant gasket dressing with good results. Seems to work better than Permatex #2. Not sure if just lucky or really good stuff.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Permatex/775/8...FQepaQodxJkAXg

At least one of my shift fork seals is leaking also. I put leather gaskets behind the levers too slow it down (which it did) but still get a drop now and then.

davids2toys · #7 (**permalink**) 06-18-2016, 11:31 AM

Dan,
I am a little confused...did you actually replace the gasket with a brand new one? Are you doing this with the tunnel installed?
The rules I live by now is whenever I do a gasket with RTV or just RTV alone.
1. Total cleanliness
2. just snug up fasteners until squeeze out
3. final Torque the next day or an hour, I forgot. It is after it sets up.
4. do not operate until it is all set up for 24 hours

Do you know the Torque spec and pattern to tighten these up to?
Is the cover straight forward, no surprises inside?
I will follow your lead and inspect the cover for flatness. Is this thing thin like an oil pan or valve cover?
Dave

Bernica · #8 (**permalink**) 06-18-2016, 11:58 AM

Here are torque specs from David Kee site:

Torque Specs and Gear Ratios

For sealant, Ford TA-31 or TA-29 are pretty nasty stuff!

davids2toys · #9 (**permalink**) 06-18-2016, 01:48 PM

Thanks for the torque info, I will sleep better tonight...LOL
I will have to look into that sealant, I have never heard of that one. I know and have this Mopar stuff meant for tranny pans. Stuff is unreal, but expensive. I have been using Ultra rigid, it is grey. Works real well. i actually used it for the rear end gasket alone. Actually did it all wrong except for the cleanliness and waiting 24 hours before I drove the car. I did Torque in sequence buy I did not wait the initial waiting period. I thought it all squeezed out and it would leak for sure. Still shocked, it has not leaked one drop!

Bernica · #10 (**permalink**) 06-18-2016, 02:21 PM

You can get either of those sealants at your local Ford dealer parts dept. The TA-31 is actually in a canister for a caulking gun. The TA-29 comes in a traditional tube.
Good luck!

DanEC · #11 (**permalink**) 06-18-2016, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Dan,
I am a little confused...did you actually replace the gasket with a brand new one? Are you doing this with the tunnel installed?
The rules I live by now is whenever I do a gasket with RTV or just RTV alone.
1. Total cleanliness
2. just snug up fasteners until squeeze out
3. final Torque the next day or an hour, I forgot. It is after it sets up.
4. do not operate until it is all set up for 24 hours

Do you know the Torque spec and pattern to tighten these up to?
Is the cover straight forward, no surprises inside?
I will follow your lead and inspect the cover for flatness. Is this thing thin like an oil pan or valve cover?
Dave

No - the tunnel has to be off. My Toploader was rebuilt by Keith Craft and the cover was not very tight and the gasket appeared to be in good shape so I de-greased it and tacked it on both sides with Permatex #2. I'm about to conclude Permatex #2 doesn't hold up to oil that well. I may try some of that TA29 Bernica is mentioning.

Yes, it's straight forward - no surprises - other than you get to look at the inside of your transmission. It's a sheet metal plate. Don't do anything to obstruct the vent hole in it.

Bernica · #12 (**permalink**) 06-18-2016, 06:46 PM

Don't obstruct the vent hole, and if you have the cover off and looking at the guts, may as well verify that you have a CR or WR per David Kee's instructions.

"Gear ratio is determined by tooth count on second gear. If it has 28 teeth, it's a close ratio. If it has 31 teeth, it's a wide ratio."

You would be surprised how many guys think they have one when they really have the other.

cdnus · #13 (**permalink**) 06-18-2016, 08:20 PM

My solution after many tries at sealing gasket was to seriously degrease cover, trans flange,bolts, and threaded holes. Then spread a heavy bead of hi temp silicone on flange including holes and vent hole. Install cover, snug bolts and let set for at least 24hrs. Drill, tap and install vent in tailshaft housing..
Problem solved, not a hint of weeping or leaking anywhere.
Hope this helps.
Craig.
PS.
30+k miles.

davids2toys · #14 (**permalink**) 06-20-2016, 12:37 PM

Dan, I picked up the gasket kit today. 8 bucks, a bargain! I may do it tonight. It is on my to do while the tunnel is out list.
I have had great luck with the Permatex Ultra "Grey", especially with oil!

Bernica, that is an excellent idea. I would really like to do that. Where is this procedure to do this and identify second gear? I could not find it. I am betting I have a wide ratio!
Edit: Just found it, just need to figure out which is second gear. I will try and print out the exploded view and bring it with me.

Craig,
I am going to do everything you have suggested except seal up the vent and relocate a new one.; If a little decides to seep from the pinhole vent in the cover, so be it.

In the site Bernica posted, they show a different vent than the one in the cover, in fact, they don't even call the cover vent out. the only vent they call out is in the tail-shaft housing. It is part number 66 in the exploded view. I do not have the tail-shaft vent that they do call out. Not that I can see anyway!

Bernica · #15 (**permalink**) 06-20-2016, 12:48 PM

If I remember correctly, the other way to tell between WR and CR is on the input shaft, but that would require removal of the trans which you aren't doing. Not sure which is which off hand, but as I recall one of them has a "stripe" turned on the input designating what it is. Dave Kee would know....

cdnus · #16 (**permalink**) 06-20-2016, 12:50 PM

David
Do Not go with the vent hole open with no cover gasket. The gasket acts as a baffle for the vent preventing hot trans oil splashing out the hole.
Bite the bullet and take the hour or so required to install the tailshaft housing vent. One of the better time investments you can make in the car.
JMO
Craig

DanEC · #17 (**permalink**) 06-20-2016, 01:39 PM

He said he bought a new gasket. But, your comment is a good one - I forgot that the opening in it is off set to the vent to baffle it.

davids2toys · #18 (**permalink**) 06-20-2016, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernica

If I remember correctly, the other way to tell between WR and CR is on the input shaft, but that would require removal of the trans which you aren't doing. Not sure which is which off hand, but as I recall one of them has a "stripe" turned on the input designating what it is. Dave Kee would know....

I remember determining it was a wide ratio by some other article I read, It was about speed vs rpm between each gear, I remember doing it and determining it was a wide ratio. Unfortunately I suffer from CRS disease and can't recall the exact details. I will try to determine which second gear and count the teeth

davids2toys · #19 (**permalink**) 06-20-2016, 09:58 PM

Yes, as Dan said, am definitely running a gasket. Glad to know the hole is offset to act as a baffle, pretty neat idea actually. That would have thrown me for a loop and I probably would have thought the gasket was made wrong. Thanks for the heads up!
Craig, interesting idea...so, what did you use for you new vent hole and where exactly in the tail-shaft housing did you put it.

DanEC · #20 (**permalink**) 06-21-2016, 06:41 AM

Dave - while you're digging into all of this - is the transmission tail housing gasket sealing OK? It's fairly easy to replace it also while you have the tunnel off.