Road and Race Transmission

[Ant]

Having used Seanz racing trans, Toploaders, I am a bit confused on what trans to shoot for!
Going to run a small block Ford with approx 500bhp and whatever torque it has, I don't see that a trans like the TKO11 0.74 on fifth gear and 0.5 overdriven on sixth gear to be any use to me, with either 3.27/3.08 final drive ratio.
Richmond gear make their five speeds with something like 0.91/0.86 on fifth which would be good, but I hear they dont shift as good as other transmissions.
A second hand Jerico road race 5 speed would be nice, with equivalent to road type ratios, if I could get a reliable source to obtain one - so as to avoid a pile of crap! Race teams time out their transmissions so that could be an option.

Even a Super T10 works well but that could mean changing rear end ratios from time to time!

If anyone can recommend where to source a 2hand Jerico or suchlike - great

Ant

[Cal Metal]

Ant:

A couple of things. Second hand Jericos are not inexpensive transmissions, as a rule. If you find one at a swap meet the issue you have to address is what are you buying. The Jericos are, at the very least, a custom made unit. If you look at their site, you can conjure up 950 different ratios depending on what you want. It appears from your post that you are looking for a specific ratio and the probability of finding it at a swap meet is probably pretty limited given the countless gear combinations that are possible with the Jerico. They are not like a Tremac or TL, which only have two or three ratio sets.

Also, the boxes are made for specific applications from drag, oval, road race to some that have integral cooling units; clutch/clutchless types. It can be a real can of worms and requires some definite homework before setting out. Otherwise, you can buy the proverbial "pig-in a-poke".

Replacement parts are not cheap, either. Gears can run $200 to $300 which is quite a differnce from, let's say a Toploader or a Super T. If you are looking for a 5-speed v. 4-speed box you just ratcheted the price up another notch.

David Kee sells new Jerico units. You might call him and ask him about the used market and what he sees. He is much more the expert than myself on these and could probably give you some assistance

[rdorman]

.....if someone made a reasonable non-syncronized box for racing. David Kee should be able to help you. Give him a try.

Or you can just buy a $15,000 Hewland!

Rick

[Mr.Fixit]

I like richmonds a little better than tremecs. Either one will work, but compare their prices to full boogie race tranny's, and that will tell you something about the expected lifespan of them under racing conditions. 500 HP is no big deal for a tremec or richmond

[flipper35]

Richmond has one where 5th is 1:1 and I thought the TKO-II was a 5 speed. I know they have a very short first gear. What would be wrong with a Super T-10 and a quick change center node. Swap the two gears for racing and back for cruising. Then again, I don't know how well that would work. Heck, what do I know.

[Ant]

Thanks Guys

Cal metal:
The reply makes good sense regarding Jerico's, I used a Seanz dog box on the road for a while, I have been told some of these transmissions dont last that well and can be prone to chipping the gears when doing ponderous shifting on the road, and the novelty of the gear noise would wear off.

Mr Fixit

The Richmond would seem to be a better option than the Tremec with the 1.1 top gear, I am wondering whether I should get another Toploader as some of the 5 speeds have such a low first gear they are virtually the same as a 4 speed, but I guess its the gear sort of between 2nd and 3rd that needs the gap filling in the toploader, especially on tighter course!

It may be obvious use a road box for road a little racing, and a race box.......

Are there any other transmissions that are worth looking at, with a nice shift etc in the 5 speed realm?

Amt

[Cal Metal]

Ant:

You are correct. The composition of the gears on a RR v. a drag transmission are different and that is why you can't use them for different applications from what they were intended.

Regarding the ratio and 2nd/3rd. gear, I had David Kee machine parts for a "white stripe", Sebring Box (Toploader) that has a much different ratio than the standard Toploader. If you go to his site, look under the "White Stripe" Toploader link for those ratios. It is possible to configure a TL with the appropriate gear set, if you want. His site is: www.4speedtoploaders.com.

[Ant]

Cal Metal:

Have had a look at David Kee site, the white stripe would be good if I changed final drive ratio down to 3.5, for the circuit, what I am trying to avoid is ring and pinion changes from road to track use

With the Sebring ratios of 2.13, 1.59,1.19, 1 this makes the car with 3.08 rear end gears, a 71mph first gear car @6500rpm, for road use taking off may be not a nice with a real lumpy engine!

Mind you the toploader is very strong, and I will have to compromise on what ever I use as I realise that nothing is perfect, a point on the 5 speeds is that first gear can be say 3.28 and the other three gears can be spaced between fifth for a better compromise.

What are these G-Force tranmissions like are they a straight race box with a race price ticket?

Ant

[Cal Metal]

Although David does not machine gearing for all of the 'white stripe' TLs, there are a number of them on that link that do have ratios different than the 2.13.

[cobrashoch]

Cal - without going to Davids site, what's the difference between the white stripers ratios and the close ratio TL's ratios. Memory serves me ill but I thought most (not all apparently) of the white stripe boxes gearsets ratios were the same as as close ratios production boxes. I always thought the major differerence was how the gears were cut. ??????????????????
cobrashock

[750hp]

Ant - the best transmission:
http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/ The GF5R is the 5 speed that you'd be most interested in. Over $5K USD, so it's certainly above the Top Loader, Nash, Richmond, & Jerico pricing.

I spoke with Holinger about their 5 or 6 speed sequential transmissions, and they basically said that they didn't think their trans would last in my car, and that I'd therefore be wasting my money. At $16000, you'd want a more positive answer than that... Mike Long from G-Force is confident that his trans will last behind 1000+hp motors without a problem.

[Ant]

Thanks Craig

You are right I am interested in the G-Force, a bit pricey for me, but it should last so it might be a good investment, the Roadrace Richmond would be two thirds that price here in NZ.

These specialised outfits have a multiitude of gear ratios which is confusing, when I buy the transmission that would be the gear set, due to a wife etc! The next question with say a 530bhp stroked windsor is a reasonable set of ratios, and the best theory compromise I have found is the Street Richmond 5 speed with:

3.28, 2.13, 1.57, 1.24, 1.00

These ratios should fill the gaps that the Toploader has on similar gearing of 3.27/3.08 on 26" rubber, this car should be 250kgs lighter than the other car I had.


Ant

[M. Farcus]

The last time I contacted David Kee...he didn't have gears for white stripe boxes.

Call TexRacing...they do Jericos as well as T101...Rebuilt units around 3K with what ever gears you want...for road racing you need a 1st gear around 1.75, assuming you want to use it on the track...bit hard to take off.

Currently I use a Richmond 5 speed RRace version, which you get to pick your gears. Set it up to use 1-4th for short tracks with a 3.54 rear gear....gear ratios in transmission (1-4th) make car seem to have 4.56 rear (just math)...5th, is used on long tracks and will allow around 165 mph...at redline....2.9 mile track only sees around 155 mph...would probably take Road Am to see any more than that.
When I bought the Richmond about 6 years ago they were around 2.4K...don't know about now.

M

[Ant]

M

What are the ratios you use in your Richmond road race?

Ant

[M. Farcus]

Ant:

Let's see....I've slept several times since then. What is did was determine what rear gear I needed at the short track I run...In my case with my engine combination I needed a 4.56 rear gear...I then looked at a close ration T/L, and took the gear ratio that it had for each gear, multiplied by 4.56, then divided by the gear ratio of the long track (3.54)...that gave me the 1-4 gears for the Richmond...This method keeps the gear spacing the same as for a close ratio T/L...
If I were doing it again I would move all the gears up higher, starting with about 1.75 for first...That way you could use all the gears...My car is 100% Road race ,5"triple disc clutch. I would not do this if it was going to be street diriven at all or had any problems getting in trailer....also terrible for dragracing...very hard on clutch taking off.

M

[Cal Metal]

M. Farcus:

David does not keep the "white stripe" gear sets in stock. They are a custom order item. Machining has to be done to the case, cluster, and input.

Ron:

The gears are not cut any different than the standard TL boxes. Check his site for the variety of ratios.