What Clutch Plate??

[Jahred]

Bunch of questions for anyone with some ready answers.......

For 514/TKO application; 3:50 gears...

Had some severe slippage problems after approx 3000 miles.

Have pulled tranny et al.

Trying to make sure I have solid parts fore they go back in.

Was running a Ram 2400 Lb PP (Long Style) with Ram 300 Series clutch (I think)........

Have a Ram 2800 Lb PP handy and trying to decide on clutch.

Have hydraulic TO bearing; McCleod.

I keep getting mixed reads on clutch selection. Thought I was going with Sintered Iron this time around, but Ram Website seems to recommend much lower static pressure for sintered iron.

That would seem to leave me with the 300 series, or organic.

Anyone know original and "wear specs" for typical or Ram clutches? Mine looks like it's worn a few mm total.....well under 10 mm total width, but a fair bit of material left to the screws........had some blueing on the plate and flywheel.........not much.......have resurfaced.........

Not sure if my slippage was due to clutch wear, inadequate PP static pressure, misalign on HYD T/O or combination but selection of clutch material at this point is my biggest point of conrfusion...........

Any thoughts??

[Excaliber]

Funny,,,,, we were just discussing this very issue over at Gasholes.

For myself I'm going with McLoed 12" "street" type clutch. To much traffic to go with a "race" clutch. Currently running an 11.5 Hays Competition clutch. I "abused" it and now need a new one. 12" as big as will fit on my flywheel.

FACT IS, if I'm going with a street clutch I CAN'T drive the car like it's a "dragster". You WILL loose the clutch if your doing back to back "burn outs" (sure is fun though). I DON'T want a "in or out" clutch!

Ordering from Chris at Shelby.

[Back in Black]

They are rated for 750 horsepower so should be sufficient. Here's a very important thing to consider.. is your adjustable TO bearing properly adjusted? Mine was never adjusted but apparently just thrown in there by West Coast cobras.. and the car was delivered with blown TO bearing o-rings.. because the travel was at the extreme end and therefore was causing extreme pressure to dis-engage.
Ironically, 3,000 miles later, the next time they blew this saved me from severe transmission damage (The case was leaking and the bellhousing was full of tranny fluid by the time I got her into the shop.. she sat for 2 weeks waiting for shop time and I think that's when she lost most of the fluid because the tranny internals are good) this problem also allowed me to notice the coolant in my oil, etc...which kept me from totally blowing my motor. It's nearly rebuilt and is going to dyno very soon.

The McCleod unit should be sufficient if you get the TO bearing properly set. If it's not set right then you can have a range of clutch engagement issues.

[Excaliber]

Cool, I wasn't sure what HP the McLeod would handle.

I have the typical slave cylinder pushing clutch fork on the outside type T.O. I always worry about "riding the clutch" and it's properly adjusted with correct free play.

[Jahred]

Excalibur.......my pressure plate diameter is 11 inches. You don't run past your PP diameter do you?

Do you know what the static pressure is on your clutch set up?

Anybody understand why Sintered Iron shouldn't be used with higher weight PP? I suppose it eats the flywheel?

Getting the Setting on the Hyd T/O is a pain in the ass. I consider it a MAJOR design defect that they are so sensitive.

Can they be adjusted while the tranny is in? After having everything apart, I think how it all fits together now and seems if the hoses were disconnected you can spin the TO bearing to adjust inside the bell housing.......if you can see thru the panel adequately.

[SCOBRAC]

I love my Mcleod as well. It is also a part which could have been on an original car.

[Jahred]

What kind of pressure plate are you running that accommodates the 12 inch clutch? Presume that must be a McCleod as well? Do you know what the "weight" is??

Thanks.

[decooney]

Are you certain you had plenty of clearance between your internal hydraulic TO bearing and the RAM pressure plate fingers/tongs? How much clearance did you have? Were there "any" signs of oil on your clutch disk or leakage from your rear main seal?

I had a RAM clutch in the past and can tell you first hand the new 12" McLeod will bite so hard it can tear the A$$ end out of your car if you are not careful. No slippage on the 12" Mc, that is for sure...

[Jahred]

I didn't do the initial install of the Hydo - frankly, I ended up with more mechanics than I can count.

I am also confused after a couple years as to what parts I really have. I know the Hyd T/O bearing is McCleod. After looking at the McCleod website, I'm concluding the Pressure Plate is also McCleod. Same color, design, Long Style with three fingers.

So the only Ram part was probably the disc. Question. I am inclined to go with the McCleod 800 series........any thoughts? Or should I stick with the 100 Series. Is the reference above re street use suggesting the 100 Series over the 800??

Last question. Everyone keeps talking about a 12 Inch, but I only see 10.5 on McCleods website, and my PP diameter is only 11 inches so 12 can't work. Whats up with the descrepancy here?????

I will have to figure out how to measure when I put it back together........I only know that when I removed the Hyd T/O bearing after pulling the tranny, that is was just over three full turns from being "fully locked" to tranny - ie three more turns and it was up against tranny at end of spline. Dunno if that is meaningful to anyone. Guessing not!

Any recommendations on easiest way to set T/O? Do you measure after it is installed and adjust? Sorry for all the Q's.......

[Back in Black]

Thanks for the laugh. I am looking forward to testing my Strange Engineering 9 inch pro street diff. and 33 spline pro street axles!

[cobrashoch]

Johnny - Iron faced aluminum flywheels are pretty much the standard fair for street flywheels. They use iron in various configurations to stop warpage when the wheel is hot from abuse or if you simply just ride the clutch. In any rate the flywheel is most likly not the problem.
Assuming all of the stuff in the replys above all check out o.k. I really think you possibly are going down the same road I visited many, many times.
Got 600lbs of torque? check
Got big ol' tires backside. check
Street long styles will break eyebolts and warp.
Centerforces are a joke.
"Pro" diaprams stick to the floorboards from time to time, and slip as they age.
McCleods slip with big tires too, are more expensive but are mostly o.k. for streeting around. Forget thrashing them hard though.
6 bolt hot rod pressure plates mostly are just expensive and don't really work well.
After fooling around with about 25 or so clutch combos it seems I finally found the "right'' thing to do. It's a bit different, and a lot more expensive to boot though.
It's the pro long style "competition" clutches sold to super stock racers. These long style pressure plates have 12 bolts that circle the perimeter equally spaced and require the matching 12 bolt flywheel. This type of pressure plate just plain will not warp, break eyebolts, vibrate or any of that junk. When using this style of pressure plate, with all else being equal, you can use a slightly smaller clutch disk, together with a slightly lighter clamping weight. About 2800lbs is about right for a 2500 lbs car I would say. Most of these types of pressure plates are also factory rebuildable.
I'm not even going to tell you what I put #39-608 Hayes comp. long style through for 4 years, and lived it did on the street/strip. It was just a 11 incher with a Ram bonded and rivited disk for a big input toploader, and this setup held a set of M&H 1050's in a 3000 lbs car! If you choose to investigate this idea I'd bet even money you will not regret it.
cobrashock

[Rick Parker]

Clutch info

[cobrashoch]

Johnny- Re; Throwout bearing. Don't know about a McCleods but a Tilton is set at .0300 with the bearing adjustment set all the way back. You use shims between the unit and the tranny to set it. Do the shim setting with hydrolic pump on the bearing, when it relaxes after you take your foot off the clutch. All throw out bearing adjustments after that are set forward with the internal adjuster to adjust the clutch throwout bearing. (Tilton)
As for if your flywheels facing is to rough. I would't worry so much about that. If it is and it indeed wears out the disk too quick, a harder faced disc facing the flywheel can be used. They are the cheap link in this chain after all. Just remember if you have to go to a harder disc later, that a harder disc could (will) also slip more on the hard pulls. As you can see, it's kinda a tuning thing based on your driving habits.
cobrashock

[Excaliber]

I just called Chris at Shelbys and he set me up with the 12" McLeod for my 428 flywheel on my 427 S.O.

Apparently the 12" unit fits!