Clutch Selection for the 460 CRATE

[kitcarbp]

I am ready to order my clutch but I wanted into tap into the knowledge here with folks running a 429/460 in their Cobras. I plan to use the Richmond Gear 5 speed and a Tilton hydraulic release bearing designed for this trans. I am looking at using a Centerforce Dual friction or a Mcleod Dual friction type. Should I be considering others ? The car will be 90 % street driven with a few runs at the track. I want a reliable clutch that has proven success in your experiences. I have heard a range of opinions but would appreciate hearing facts. Thanks in advance

[Michael Quinn]

As inviting as the McLeod is,may be I suggest you take a minute to try to reach their tech department. I really liked the quality of the dual plate clutch and the machine work that went into it - but I had a problem and it took 3 mo. to resolve! Just TRY to reach Fred (he is the ONLY one that does the tech help). His hours are something like from 10am to 10:15 and then from 3pm to 3:15. You will get nothing but busy signals - you will never get any return calls. The only way I was able to talk to him was after 20 e-mails he replyed with a 1 sentence reply. I then pretended to want to buy a clutch and I was able to speak to someone presales - then I posed the situation and they said that Fred was the only one that could help. Just try to call before you purchase - I loved the quality - I hated the service! I can share more if you like, they REALLY pissed me off!

[Mohuska]

I am using the Mcleod and I really like it...I also have a West Coast and have put it through major renovations over the last 3 years... The folks I deal with warn me away from Centerforce....

Mike

PS....never had a problem with service at Mcleod.....just lucky I guess..

[kitcarbp]

Hello Mike, Would you be able tell me whihc flywheel you are using and the part numbers you used in your West Coast for the Mcleod disc and pressure plate? I plan to use a Tilton Hydraulic release bearing, which bearing are you using and how has it been? Oh yeah one more question, what size hydraulic master cylinder are you using ,a 3/4" bore or a 7/8" bore and which brand are you using, Tilton, Wildwood, etc ?? Vern used a 3/4" bore Wildwood in my chassis and I am contemplating moving up to a 7/8" bore size since this is what Tilton advises in their literature.

Thanks for the feedback

[kitcarbp]

Yep, .... same experience trying to contact Mcleod over the last two weeks, I was thinking they shut down at the end of the year, but I'll call again this week to prove your point, service is key!

[wdigital]

kitcarbp,
Can you tell me what bellhousing you are using? I am planning to switch my c6 to a TKO600. Trying to figure out my best options.
Thanks,

[Mohuska]

My West Coast is having some work done...new Baer brakes front and back and a new TKO-500 transmission...We are messing around with the McLeod as we are trying a diaphragm clutch and a different style of TO bearing. My guy will give me a complete list in a couple of days after we try the new TO......

I am also having him put on a PBS hydroboost to increase the breaking pressure from stock 400-500 psi to 2300 psi.....THIS THING WILL STOP LIKE YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN!

[kitcarbp]

Hey wdigital, I decided to use a OEM bell housing from a 351/400M engine out of an old Bronco/Pick-Up readily available on the internet, I found mine on ebay. Its not approved for high rpms or racing of course, but mine will be street driven. The other option I know that fits is the Lakewood SFI approved bellhousing, this is what Vern @ WC uses for all the ones he builds. BUT you have to be prepared for tedious alignment checking using the Lakewood IF yours measures out of spec when you bolt it up. I am in the process of checking the OEM bell housing alignment to the engine block and I am using the Ford Racing Flywheel for the 460 Crate motor from Ford. I Would appreciate your feedback on the decision to move away from the C6 trans. why ? I don't know of anyone using a TKO600 in a WC so measure carefully before you decide as some chassis mods will be needed. The WC chassis is set up for the Richmond Gear 5 speed and to save time and fab work I plan to use the RG 5 speed.

Thx

[Michael Quinn]

kitcarbp, you should align an OEM belhousing the exact same way with alignment pins. They are easy to use. A simple runout gauge will give you what you are looking for. My Lakewood was only a little off. I even checked the surface accuracy and it was dead on. If you are using the McLeod double clutch setup use only the 3/4 master. Anything more will create too much travel (and WAY harder clutch pedal). Good luck!

M.

[Mohuska]

Kit,

I also own a WCC. Just this week, I had installed a TKO-500. I like the ratio for street better. I had a Richmond (Doug Nash) 5 speed that always had problems shifting into 1st and 2nd. The TKO-500 bolted right in. the only difference was where the shifter was located. I now is about 1 1/2 inches to the right or dead in the middle of the tunnel. I like the position even better than before. We just drove it yesterday and it is amazing. I also had previously a Mcleod clutch. It seemed also to have problems that I thought were due to the TO bearing. We put a new type of hydraulic To bearing that does't just float on the input shaft, it bolts in and provides a much better feel on the engage/disengage than before.

We are now putting on Baer brakes (13") with 17" rims. To provide better braking, we are putting in a POwer Brake Service hydroboost. That provides much more braking force and reduces pedal fade.

By the way....I now have a fully polished set of 15" rims that will fit your WCC....any interest?? email me if you are or I will come back to check this thread...

Good Luck...

Mike

PS...Rims are Team III

[kitcarbp]

Yes I am interested in the team three wheels for the WC. Can you send pictures and let me know what you want for them.

Thanks Bill

[cobrashoch]

MY EXPERIENCES----------
After fooling around with almost all the big clutch setups and a 31 spline toploader, then switching over to a automatic some comments.
Clutch Pedal Stops---
A centerforce clutch needs little throwout movement to actuate the pressure plate. You will most likely need to put a pedal stop on to keep from going over the pressure plate centerline. This will keep Centerforces as well aftermarket diapram clutches from sticking on the floorboard. A pedal stop will also keep you from bending a finger on a Borg and Beck 3 finger clutch. A block of wood on the floorboard can be used for the mechanically challenged and emergencys.
Diapram Pressure plates-----
Diapram pressure plates are limited to about 26 or 28 hundred pounds of clamping force. A Centerforce pressure plate uses weights to increase clamping force about 200/250 lbs at high RPM's. A lot of racing types around these parts take off the weights. About the practical street limit on a street car of about 2800 lbs is about 450 horsepower. Centerforce pressure plates work well with stock factory disks too. Any more power than 450 requires a ,,,,,,,

Borg and Beck (3 Finger) pressure plates.---- Skys the limit on clamping force but the 3200lbs limit I would put on most Cobras are about all thats needed on most a street cars. 3200lbs will also wear out you left leg too. Higher pressures also cause hydrolic throwout bearing problems. Borg and Beck PRO pressure plates are what I recomend to all that listen to me, because they have heaviier case castings, are rebuildable, and have zero disk deflection when you drop the hammer. All pro clutches have at least 12 bolts though, and require their own 12 bolt flywheels. I can't stress this enough, in my eyes a pro clutch is the ONLY way to go on a street car that takes weekend racing abuse. You can also run slightly lighter clutches with them. Been there, done that. All big inch strokers and big block cars need to look these guys over. Yes, they cost more too.

Double and triple disc clutches - For racing only, street cars and even most road racers need not apply here.

Transmission Hydro. Throw out bearings. (inside bellhgousing type)---- Tiltons, designed for Centerforce pres. plates only. Do not use with any more than 2800 lbs pressure plates. You will blow seals and they will pump (leak) on clutch ingagement. On McClouds make that about 3000lbs. Understand, they will ALL work for a while if you abuse them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

External slaves/actuators for Throw Out bearings.
Only way to fly- but they are harder to fabrcate up and require a fork thats hard to find. I welded up a bracket on my scattershield to mount one up, but my NHRA tech guy wasn't impressed, and rejected my shield handywork.
cobrashock

[Dominik]

Always a pleasure you warm up an exisiting thread.
I actually look for a hydr TO bearing inside the bellhousing for my 460 with toploader combo.

used clutch is McLeod, number I have to check, but maximum height of the TO bearing assy should be 1 3/8", which takes 1/8" of clutch wear into account.

I used Tilton's version in 1993 and they leaked like garfield's dog.
the o-ring seals of the swivel fitting didn't seal.

was a pain to find out, but here is what I did:

I eliminated the O-ring version and used a banjo fitting with copper rings instead with an allen head (fabricated).

notch the bellhousing at your 6 and 12 o'clock position to insert the now bulkier assembly.
drill holes in the bellhousing top and bottom to insert a long allen key to fasten the banjo fittings.

they need to swivel to be able to slide in the TO bearing with transmission into the bellhousing.
tighten allen heads once trans is bolted to bellhousing.

good luck!

but who knows which hydr TO bearing will work for me?
I heard a modofied SAAB 900 turbo's may do the trick.

cheers,

dominik, south-africa