Big or small input/output toploader?

diiulio · #1 (**permalink**) 05-11-2005, 01:20 PM

I have a '64 toploader that is in excellent condition. It is the small bolt pattern case, has small input and small output shaft.

So, my question is should I get a new large input, matching retainer, large mainshaft, and matching tailhousing?

Or... is the small input/output ok to handle the 427 it will be bolted to? The 427 is not going to be a wild build.

I know I can get the parts from David Kee, but wondering if spending $$$ is worth it.

Thanks,
Jason

Tongue Pirate · #2 (**permalink**) 05-11-2005, 01:46 PM

Page 14 of the ERA 427 assembly manual talks about this. Follow this link...
http://www.erareplicas.com/freeman/427.pdf

If you don't have acrobat it basically says that small input & output is ok unless you expect to subject it to extreme use.

Ford of France · #3 (**permalink**) 05-11-2005, 02:14 PM

Talk with David about your situation. He does, afterall, build them and can give you some good guidance.

blykins · #4 (**permalink**) 05-11-2005, 04:35 PM

A small in/small out Toploader would hold a mildly built engine. I don't think you would have any problems.

One thing you do need to check though is that '64 Toploader is probably a 25 spline output. They're weaker than a cat's back. You will definitely need to change out the mainshaft. The current one will not last with any power.

I went this route. I got an excellent deal on a 64-1/2 Toploader....It was in excellent shape.....I bought a road race rebuild kit from David Kee along with a new 28 spline output shaft and a new input shaft bearing retainer to work with a Lakewood scattershield. I did all the work myself. You'll need a good workbench to lay out all the parts, a bearing press, and a good pair of snap ring pliers.

diiulio · #5 (**permalink**) 05-11-2005, 04:57 PM

What did you use for the tailhousing?

I can't remember if mine was the 25-spline output, but if I remember correctly it was. If I have to change out the main shaft I figure I'll go all the way and get the large output and large input especially if I need to replace the bearing retainer anyways for the Lakewood.

Anthony · #6 (**permalink**) 05-11-2005, 06:27 PM

The early 427 cobra's came with a abig in-small out toploader.

It's an easy swap to change the input to the large input with the big front bearing retainer, a coupkle hundred dollars.

I'm not sure if the 25 spline output has the same bushing and tailshaft diameter as the 28 spline, but if it does, it's an easy swap assuming you're rebuilding your tranny.

If you want to go the big out, you'll need either a different tailshaft housing, or bore out the one you have for the bigger bushing, in addition to the bigger mainshaft.

I think the weakest part is the input, assumiung you're using a 28 spline oputput. I'd change to the big input first, and then the big out if you want it.

In general, you want the 24" length tranny, not the 25 1/2 or 27" versions.

If you're going to rebuild the tranny yourself, buying the parts yourself, then you may save some money. If you are going to pay someine to rebuild it,then you're better off buying the tranny from David Kee or Markl at toploader heaven.

blykins · #7 (**permalink**) 05-11-2005, 06:51 PM

I used the same tailhousing....just pressed in a new bushing that fits the 28 spline shaft.

If the other parts are good, I wouldn't go to the trouble of going with the big stuff. If you do go with a 31 spline output, you will have to find a 31 spline tailhousing to fit it. So that will be more money on top of everything else. David Kee said that you could bore out a 28 spline tailhousing...but I'd have to send it to him to have it done.

If your mechanical skills are good, then you should consider doing it yourself. You'll save quite a bit of money. I got an excellent deal on my tranny.......but with all the rebuild parts I've got a hair less than $700 in mine.

diiulio · #8 (**permalink**) 05-12-2005, 03:06 PM

Thanks guys. I am going to think about this one for a little while. Yes, I will definitely be doing all the work myself, fortunately I have rebuilt a Ford 4-spd, NP435 for my Jeep.

This tranny I bought is completely rebuilt by ford in the early 70's and hasn't been touched since. It looks brand new on the inside. I won't have to rebuild this. The guy I bought it from is a good honest guy who lived next door to my buddy with tons of Ford parts in his barn.

I picked the tranny up for $200- the guy even picked it up and put it in the back of my pick up for me. So, I am thinking it is worth throwing some money at to get a good solid tranny. I would not have to buy any rebuild kit, just what I upgrade. I still haven't counted the splines, but I'd put money it that it is the 25 spline out.

blykins · #9 (**permalink**) 05-12-2005, 03:44 PM

If you're gonna swap mainshafts, you might as well freshen everything up. It's worth the time and effort to make sure everything's perfect. You'll have to change the mainshaft bearing anyway, so might as well upgrade to new parts....Also if you change the mainshaft, might as well put brand new bronze synchronizer blocking rings, needle bearings on the clustershaft, and new o-rings on the shifter cams....since all of it has to come out anyway....and you wouldn't wanna put a new mainshaft in and then have the o-rings weep tranny fluid after you install it.

All of this stuff is really cheap....really no reason not to. I bought the road race kit...comes with beefier main bearings....comes with about everything really.....assembly lube...paint....etc....