TKO 600 Problem

[HSSS427]

Crow bar! My tip would be to reseal it with something that will work when you end up taking it off the next time, and the next, and the next. And it's not always just for tranny issues ie pinion seal on the drive shaft, etc. I've had my car a year and a half and would say I've had the tunnel out 4 times in that period. Of course I'm also a glutton for punishment and always seem to come up with more project than I should. If I was really smart, I'd probably figure out some way to modify the tunnel so you could easily remove it without having to take the seats and interior out.

[Iceberg]

SPF 2207 is back on the road and is running fine. Many thanks to everyone's input. Especially CWizard. His photo's saved the day and allowed me to fix the problem myself. This forum and entire website is a lifesaver for all Cobra owners.

I agree on the re-seal of the tunnel. I did not hermetically seal it as I have a funny feeling that someday I may need to get back in.

Again thank you everyone for helping me get my torque monster back on the road.

Cheers,

Kurt

[Cal Metal]

In all of this, I missed the "FIX" or, more importantly, what was is the cause of these transmissions locking up?

[CWizard]

Cal - If you read my posts in this thread starting with the one labeled "Problem Fixed" on 4/28, I think you'll find a pretty good description of the proximate cause of the problem and how to fix it. The root cause is unknown, but may be a design issue. If you have other questions after that, fire away. Someone here should be able to answer them.
Jerry (aka CWizard)

[Cal Metal]

I was curious as to the "root" cause, as you indicated.

[mwp20]

Hello evertone, just found this site and I am excited. I am getting ready to purchase a BDR from Reg, and I am building a sbc 383 or 400 and was thinking about transmission options. I was thinking tko 600. I am looking for 475 to 500 HP. thanks

[DaveR]

I had the same problem, but it happened after a wreck so I thought it had something to do with the impact. Stuck in third, I have mid-shift kit with modified gate, so TTC words "creep of the shift finger to the point it escapes between the shift gateshaft" seem appropriate. Or to say it another way, too much slop.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I have a TKO in a Camaro stuck in 3rd now. Pulled up to the shop, shut it off in 3rd, got back in, won't come out of 3rd. I did a Google search and found this great thread. Sounds like you guys answered my questions. Has anyone else had this problem again? I have a real PIA car to R and R the trans. If this TKO is going to be problomatic, I'll ditch it now.

Oh, and BTW, Hello.

Frank Serafine
http://prodigycustoms.com
Street Rod Inspired Muscle Car Specialist

http://gpsuperstore.com
Group Purchase Discount Auto Parts

[Ant]

I think most transmissions can have problems, I have used Toploaders, Muncies, Seanz race transmissions and my current new Jerico five speed!

The Muncie was fantastic, and faster changing than the Toploader, and the Toploader can have baulking problems but some of that can be attributed to worn linkages etc.

I read a post (Coyled) mentioning the TKO has parts in it made of pot material, well when you read the many problems with the old Tremec 3550 etc, and now the 600 blowing its guts on race tracks, why would you buy a mass produced peice of rubbish, and they even call one version a "Road Race" ...........??? even if you put the trans behind a 100bhp engine it would probably still have shift problems. It is evident from road racers who now have realised either a nice Toploader, or G-force, Jerico purpose built transmissions are better ways to go. I considered a TKO 600RR Transmission and I am pleased I purchased the Jerico. I guess for road use the Tremecs are okay if you dont beat on them!

All these problems just for the extra fifth gear, and they apparently copied off the Toploader in some of the design, well they certainly fudged that up, having said all that I recommend for street and part time racers the T56, which can be had from several suppliers with different gear sets and triple cone syncros even 22 helix semi straight cut gearsets, the downfalls are the weight/$$$$$, plus used with a ridiculously heavy Lakewood bellhousing and you have about 175lbs of transmission, but thats okay in a big block grunter, my cars total weight of transmission and bellhousing is 100Ibs. G-force make a nice race T56 that can handle 900bhp, and other suppliers 650bhp versions, and they shift nicer than the 600.

[Rich Scherer]

Thanks guys, I think you solved my dilemma on what Tremec to use for my new BDR 402R. Yes the TKO 600 is more robust w/ 600 Torque Cap.,but I think after hearing about the misfortures I'll go with the T56 6 speed which of course is rated at only 450 Torque Cap. If it's used in the Vipers, Z06, SVT Cobra, Aston Martin DB7 Etc. it can't be all that bad. We sell alot of Vipers at the dealer where I work, and they have never had one in for service. That's good enough for me. I also don't plan to terrorise the track, but cruise around it. ANT your the man! I'll check into changing the gear set Etc. with a supplier in Ft. Lauderdale that does than change over.........

[Cobra 29]

I need help in understanding more about this Jerico five speed G-force transmission. Is the manufacturer Jerico and the model G-force? Where can I get the dimensions and undserstand what bellhousing I need to connect to a 351W?

[Rich Scherer]

Cobra 29 as for Jerico Tramsmission info it's all in their website jericoperformance.com. A very race oriented Trans, confusing, and way over my head. And wait till you check the price list and options....Think i'll stick with a Tremec T-56...Boy that Ford top loader in my last sideoiler Unique worked good!!! Happy hunting.. ............

[Ant]

Cobra 29,

Thanks Rich,

This is what I have for limited road and track use!
http://www.jericoperformance.com/4.html


GF5R is a road race transmission like the Jerico, and they have to be driven fast but once you are used to them they are the ticket, very little HP loss much easier to work on than a normal type transmission, and you dont have the syncro problems.
G-force make a nice T56 gear set, and if you use the Viper case the gear lever will be in a more forward position than the Ford case, I think the GM T56 is further back again they all vary. The T56 has triple cone syncros so they are a lot better for hard use than the TKO, which going by the CC Posts, really a road use transmission "ONLY"

http://www.g-forcetransmissions.com/productoverview.asp

All the above transmissions including the T56 race trans are around USD$6000, another option is to get a nice 4speed Toploader with alloy case from David Kee, alloy case not recommended for hard use drag racing, much cheaper than the above transmissions and what I would go for but I wanted a five speed race trans so I went for the Jerico, and one thing to bear in mind the race transmissions use dog rings like blocks that fit into slots in the gears and these round off/chip and may need replacing over time, but I know guys with 840bhp and Jerico Five speeds (magnesium case 80Ibs all up) that have not touched them for 8 years use and more, but these cars are mainly track use, so it doesnt really matter if you do bearings and dog rings every few years!

[Ant]

Quartermaster make a steel lightweight bellhousing 19Ibs, that fits either Ford or Chev, it is under half the weight of a Lakewood and more compact, but you need to use the QM flexplate or flywheel and starter with it, here are the part numbers, but my setup is more race than road, the clutch is a Cerametallic Rally clutch from Tilton which is more tolerant to some slippage, and in my opinion much better than a single disc heavy unit, my usage is mainly road racing, so for Drag racing this may not be the best option.

Also my Jerico is in GM Pattern ie front shaft length, bolt pattern, main shaft 32spline which is needed to suit Quartermaster lightweight Bellhousing #
Mark Williams hardened 1350 Yoke is needed also for the needle roller output bearings, this is precison gear and virtually unbreakable, but we are really getting away from normal road car stuff.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/product.htm
My bellhousing has cutouts similar to the lightweight all GM item on this site!
Tilton Rally twin plate clutch 740ftIbs torque, #66-302UG
Tilton disc set # 64185-7-AA-36, this suits the Jerico or G-force 26spline x 1.125" front shaft.
Tilton Button flywheel suit Ford Windsor #19008
Quartermaster Flexplate # 509322
Quartermaster Ultra duty Starter #114300
ARP Flywheel bolts for this setup #350-2801
Tilton 600 series hydraulic release bearing

Hope that helps, it may not be what you want, as once you start with buying race transmissions a vicious cycle of spending money starts, but in my opinion a good clutch is most important, even if you are just running a nice Toploader transmission which will work just as well as the above for most things. Using a 4speed Ford Toploader will be a fraction of the price and if you get rid of the heavy flywheel/clutch, and maybe use a flexplate and a good quality smaller diameter clutch, this wont really cost anymore than a jolly great heavy single disc unit, the only compromise you may have to make is careful rear end ratio selection for the usage you require if you are running a higher rpm, less torquey engine,.

This information I have supplied is just another way of building a Cobra, and I must say I have had some hassles with the wrong parts coming all the way to NZ, but a lot of fun having some nice hardware to play with!!

[Ital-cobra]

Well well only 750 miles on my TKO 600 and it happened ....stuck in second gear from park not fun. Easy to fix thanks to clubcobra.com but a pain to remove. Tremec well that's a whole different matter, thier aware of the problem but have no solutions or guaranties.

Joseph

[Nikos]

Thanks to all of the Cobra members that participate in this forum. I just posted a new thread with noticing this one .... but I have the same problem. I just posted in the new Thread "Treman 600 TKO Stuck in Second":

Just got into my new (used) BDR Cobra first day / first time driving on the road. Drove about 10 miles on /off and no problems - Reverse / 1, 2, 3, 4 gears very smooth. Clutch feels great. I get to my daughter's school, turn off the car and come back 5 minutes later, turn on the engine and that is it:

1. Shifter is in the neutral position and moves left to right
2. Transmission is actually stuck in second gear
3. Shifter will not go into 1,2,3,4,5,or reverse
4. Clutch works - I was able to drive home in second gear without stalling and using the clutch. The Clutch and slave are also new - less than 1 year from previous owner

Oil in reserve is filled.

I let the car totally cool and tried to shift gears while in the off position. Nothing - same condition as above. Any thoughts??

Thanks
Nick

________________________

Thanks again everyone and I will have my shop look into your fix.

[RICK LAKE]

Nikos Nick TRy getting the rear wheels off the ground and unloading the drive train. This might work. The porblem seams to be that there is no limiters in the trans to control the throwns. Try spinning the tires, starting the motor, do this for a couple of seconds because of OIL getting to the oil pickup. If this fails You are pulling the interior. It only takes about 1 hour and a screw gun once the seats are out. Rick L.

[RICK LAKE]

Cobra 29 First Name would be nice. Lets talk trannies and what you are going to do with the car,
If this is a street car and NO abuse is going to happen, The HP and torque are under 450/450 you have 2 options. We don't know what the torque is of the motor or rearend ratio?
Richmond 5 speed with a 1-1 5th gear if running a 2.88 or 3.07 rearend gearing. This is not an overdrive trans. With the lower rearend gearing you can live without it if you do no long cruising. Trans bolts right into your car and ERA has the correct looking shifter.
Richmond 6 speed overdrive. Get this with the 2.88 first gear or the 2.66, DON'T get the 3.25 setup. I have this and NEVER used 1st gear. 15 feet and you have to shift. Trans has a 450/450 rating. The overdrive is nice with a 2.87. Unless you have a big torque motor down in the low rpms of 1,300-1,500 the lower 6 gear will not work and lug the drivetrain unless you are driving at 80 mph. to get into the power band of the motor.
Bolt patterns are both the same for bellhousing. Only different is the rear mount needs to be moved 1" back on the frame. The other way around this is the plate it using the stock location mount. As long as it's aligned and has a good solid mount there is no problem.I raced this for 4 years, trans is going in a TA for the rest of it's life.
Here's the 1 I reccommend, Super Street 5 speed. POwer rating 600/600. This will cover most motors with no problems. Again depending on rearend ratio, either the 2.87 or 2.6something first and the overdrive is in the .87 range. The .66 may be too low for a mild motor. Bolts right into a ERA. Get the custom shifter for the orginial look. Install and forget. All these trans have heli gears and not straight cut for keeping the noise down. There are shift limiters on the shifter assembly so you can bang the shift and not over thrown it like our TKO 500, TKO 600, and TKO T 56 that has not been upgraded with better main shafts, synros and cones. If you bought a new T 600 and had it blue printed you are at the same price a a Richmond 5 speed.
I roadrace, autocross and have to drag race the car once in a while. The abuse to car and trans is big. I always over build my cars because of the abuse. I buy the best products I have seen tested and abused. I got a T56 trans from a GTO and called G-Force who was doing upgrades to this trans in the beginning when this trans went into the Viper and they where breaking them and shifter problems also. Cost was back then about $2,000.00 with all the race parts installed. MY problem is too many moving parts, too many shafts and internal shift shafts with out limiters. They may have fixed this problem over the years. Anyway I talked to G-Force and ended up with there race trans. Clog and dog gearing. Trans good for 1000 hp and 800 ft of torque. Bullet proof. The case also strengths the 2 main shafts and prevents splitting under abuse. It's simple and strong. Cost is big. Almost double of a Richmond. Everything is built in house with G-Force and repairs are the same inhouse. You don't need this for street driving and a little play. 95% is on track only.

I am guessing that your trans has a GM input shaft or SB ford one. I don't know about QM bellhousings but Lakewoods need to be centered on the block. Mine was .038" off center and took 3 hours to get centered. If you don't have this done, perwear will happen of the trans input shaft and bearing, Clutch disc, hard shifting, clutch engagement not smooth and a list of other problems. If you run a Lakewood bell with an GM input trans, you need to remove .280" of the input shaft tip. IF you don't you will perwearout the thrust bearing in the motor and major damage will happen. Quicktimes are centered to blocks but would still check the out of round.

Jerico and T-Rex trannies are for racing and bullet proof. Most are 4 spds. These are dog snyros and shifting is notchy. Cost about the same as a Richmond without the overdrive.

If you could give us info on the motor, HP/ Torque. the rearend gear ratio and the rough info on compression, camshaft, we could get you in the right trans for you and the car. I don't want to guess. I do know that buying the cheaper trans doesn't work out in the long run. TKO started with the T-5, T3550, T- 400 ( I think ) T-500, T-600 and are still having problems with designing them. Putting larger and bigger parts in a case without still fixing the orginial problems is not the answer. IMO too many options for these trannies. I do like the location of the shifter with all the adjustments.
Simple, basic and strong are the answers.
Give us some info on the motor and rearend and we will get you with a good trans. Rick L. Ps I learned this through hard knocks and racing. 1 side note, racing the heat going down the tunnel gets really hot and the inboard brakes don't help. I have found that after 20 minutes of racing the trans gets notchy. The fix was to install a 4" bildge fan that takes air from the right side compartment and run the tube down to the trans tunnel. $100.00 and problem is fixed. Nascar uses a bunch of blower on their cars for cooling.
I am building 1 more motor a 498 to replace the 484 one. I am going with the Superstreet trans and the 2.66 first gear for my last.
You didn't say which clutch was in the car??? This makes a differents also.
Waiting for a return e-mail Rick L. Ps I don't sell car parts for anyone here. I work for GM and have 30+ years there and 40+ 1/4 racing back to the 70's. Sorry for the long winded thread, my fault.

[CWizard]

Nikos,
Read this entire thread and you'll find answers. Note especially my 4/28/06 post. Good luck!