Tko600 Warning!!!!

[Toby]

Richard,

You are correct, you were very helpful and cordial to me! However the guy who you work for was a first class tool! He even complained about YOU at one point saying YOU had no business sending my stuff freight paid. even though it was Keislers screw up. Thats right, you were trying to do the right thing and your manager was talking you DOWN to me, the guy who you were trying to help.

He's the one I had to get nasty with. I can't remember his name, just the dippy attitude.

Richard, life is too short to work with jerks!!

Toby

[ROUSHAC]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Perhaps I should clarify my position.
I support Keisler, they've offered a fair solution and did so BEFORE this thread even started.
I sympathize with Fordfan69, it's a nightmare at best. It DOES leave me wondering if Tremec has a 3rd gear problem with manufacturing. Probably not, I would STILL buy a Tremec!
This is an entertaining thread, train wrecks are also entertaining.

Originally Posted by trularin

Got my second bag of extra butter, full kernel popcorn!

Dave! Ernie!

This is truely rich.

Do you al think we could get these guys back next week with say...a broken rear axel or maybe a leaking front Caliper or something?

Do they think this will go away?? It's like STD..with no cure.

Originally Posted by ROUSHAC

Cheers!
Dave

Originally Posted by Toby

Richard,

You are correct, you were very helpful and cordial to me! However the guy who you work for was a first class tool! He even complained about YOU at one point saying YOU had no business sending my stuff freight paid. even though it was Keislers screw up. Thats right, you were trying to do the right thing and your manager was talking you DOWN to me, the guy who you were trying to help.

He's the one I had to get nasty with. I can't remember his name, just the dippy attitude.

Richard, life is too short to work with jerks!!

Toby

Now that's more like it!

This post is for you trularin!!!

Cheers!
Dave

[lnfletcher]

Here we go, feet first.
Who's the looser on this ordeal? Not the consumer but the company.
How is the company going to get it's reputation back now that all of this has been aired?
The "right thing" was for the truth to be told in the first place and live with the results, but that didn't happen.
Now Keisler Engineering is trashed even though they most likely were in the right "technically", and FordFan69 is not out anything that he wasn't when this post started. I agree with whoever said that it would have been "cheaper" to send him another complete unit in trade and eat the costs. Who knows in reality how much this will cost Keisler.
Just look at the most successful businesses and you will find that what is lost on untruthful returns and repairs is made up for many times in customer loyalty and new customers! Walmart never asked me if I abused what I returned. The reality is, is that the customer has the money and therefore the power in these cases. We may or may not buy from Keisler but FordFan69 dosen't have to worry about selling his product.
Now Keisler has to begin the steep climb up the mountain of repaired reputations. Good luck!
By the way, almost $500 dollars seems pretty steep for parts only!

[Fordfan69]

I spoke with Keisler today and we came to an agreement. They are going to send me out a new 3rd gear and clustershaft and I am going to pay to have it rebuilt and the small parts kit. They say it will be shipped out today, Fri P.M..

All that I wanted was to have the hard parts replaced being that it was determined that there was no missed shift. I feel this is reasonable due to the fact that the warranty void issue was not brought up when I mentioned racing it. However, I am not ignorant and I know that there are certain risks involved in racing. I 100%, honestly feel I was mislead in believing that this tranny was strong enough to race occasionally at the track in my 3820LB car. If it is, in fact, a strong enough unit to handle the 450lb/ft with 3820 pounds on street drag radial tires, then my question whether there was a defect in the gear must be true.

Enough of this jabber: putting all of this aside I am satisfied that Keisler is stepping up to the plate and sharing the loss. When I get the parts, my sentiments regarding Keisler will no longer be negative. There was a problem, we had a major disagreement, and they were business-like enough to work with me and try to resolve it. Everyone should consider this.

There are many people here that agreed with me on the points of "misleading" if you will advertisement, the breakage cause, etc., and many others that don't and think I am just trying to get something for nothing at the expense of a companies reputation. Nothing is further from the truth. I did this because I work hard for my money and most people on this forum do also. Many people were/are planning on buying these trannys with mostly the intent to just cruise (as I did) as well as flogg it down the strip occasionally. People have a right to know if they spend a large sum of money for a purpose that it is not intended for, nor up to the task - period.

Thank you for your comments and input - positive and negative. But just remember, I lost. I now have a tranny I have to fix and cannot/will not use it as I intended. Keisler/Tremec lost (yes I was upset, but not my intention).

You guys won. You now have more information to use as a tool for making decisions about you car.

Thank you,
Greg.

[ByronRACE]

When asked the question whether the burden of proof regarding an alleged "abuse" case lies on the manufacturer/dealer or the customer, Keisler responded:

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

Well I can tell you that you can rest assure in the case of your transmission if you chose to buy one it would all be on you.

So, the moral of this story is DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Ask these questions prior to sale.

If a manufacturer expects the customer to bear the burden of proof regarding allegations, THINK THAT THROUGH. It is far too convenient for a manufacturer stamp every incoming defect as "customer abuse" and not have to honor a single warranty claim. In this case, not a single shred of objective evidence was presented by the manufacturer to prove the damage was caused by abuse. No test reports. Nothing. They don't feel they need to, and as stated above, they make decisions based on emotional response. In fact, some manufacturers go fishing for reasons not to honor warranties by surfing the web looking to dig up dirt on customers. Is this who you want to buy from?

Additionally, if the manufacturer has not CLEARLY defined the terms used in the warranty statement such as "abuse", "experimental", etc...they can create those definitions ad-hoc, and to your disadvantage, once again voiding your warranty at will. If you aren't a certified mechanic and installed the transmission yourself, they could make an argument that the installation was "experimental". In short, you have no warranty without a clear definition of that warranty in advance.

Lastly, there ARE great companies out there with GREAT warranties. LIFETIME NO QUESTIONS PARTS AND LABOR on ANY transmission damage whether used in racing or not. If you don't think this is true, visit www.performanceautomatic.com . They will send you a copy of the warranty statement for their SuperComp C4 which clearly states the transmission is warrantied (parts and labor) for LIFE regardless of usage. In fact, they ENCOURAGE race use. When speaking to the owner, they started this policy on the principle that (1) customers do not purposely break product and (2) if such breakage occurs, it's an R&D opportunity for the manufacturer to improve the design of the product! How's that for a novel concept? It sure beats the hell out of "Wow, 3rd gear broke again, must have been customer abuse -- WARRANTY VOID."

[TRENTRENT]

Don't know about you guys, but extortion has never been a good motivator for me.

[trularin]

What a way to join CC.

Gee TrenTrent, why on Earth would you join CC on this thread?

Well, welcome to CC. This thread is not indicative of our overall nature, , but we have our moments.

[RICK LAKE]

Fordfan69 Greg I didn't read the 9 page problem with your trans and know the Kiesler is selling trans kits. Here's the thing I work for GM and the GTO and F body cars the T56 trans are breaking and hard shifting from 2nd to 3rd
and breaking gears and small parts. They needed to be blue printed and set up right with the correct plays. I started with the nash 6 speed when it first came out. Nice trans for the street limit of 450 hp and 450 tork, NOT!!!! I put a G-force clutchless 5 speed in the car HP 1000 Tork 1000 problem shifting none. G-force is all in house building. If you get the parts for the trans, send it to them for the rebuild. They sell an 800 hp kit for the T56 and TKO600. It's not cheap but they know how to rebuild trans. I have the T56 kit for rebuilding at work and have only been able to rebuild one. the damage to the bearings, springs,and gear chips in trans failure is alot. I would reccommend a trans cooler system for your car also. No slicks would be the other thing. You said the magic word, TRACK and that is a NO-NO. If you are going to beat this car, go to a Jericho, Tex-R, of G-force. Rick Lake ps gald kielser helped you out. NO body wins in the long run.

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

When asked the question whether the burden of proof regarding an alleged "abuse" case lies on the manufacturer/dealer or the customer, Keisler responded:



So, the moral of this story is DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Ask these questions prior to sale.

If a manufacturer expects the customer to bear the burden of proof regarding allegations, THINK THAT THROUGH. It is far too convenient for a manufacturer stamp every incoming defect as "customer abuse" and not have to honor a single warranty claim. In this case, not a single shred of objective evidence was presented by the manufacturer to prove the damage was caused by abuse. No test reports. Nothing. They don't feel they need to, and as stated above, they make decisions based on emotional response. In fact, some manufacturers go fishing for reasons not to honor warranties by surfing the web looking to dig up dirt on customers. Is this who you want to buy from?

Additionally, if the manufacturer has not CLEARLY defined the terms used in the warranty statement such as "abuse", "experimental", etc...they can create those definitions ad-hoc, and to your disadvantage, once again voiding your warranty at will. If you aren't a certified mechanic and installed the transmission yourself, they could make an argument that the installation was "experimental". In short, you have no warranty without a clear definition of that warranty in advance.

Lastly, there ARE great companies out there with GREAT warranties. LIFETIME NO QUESTIONS PARTS AND LABOR on ANY transmission damage whether used in racing or not. If you don't think this is true, visit www.performanceautomatic.com . They will send you a copy of the warranty statement for their SuperComp C4 which clearly states the transmission is warrantied (parts and labor) for LIFE regardless of usage. In fact, they ENCOURAGE race use. When speaking to the owner, they started this policy on the principle that (1) customers do not purposely break product and (2) if such breakage occurs, it's an R&D opportunity for the manufacturer to improve the design of the product! How's that for a novel concept? It sure beats the hell out of "Wow, 3rd gear broke again, must have been customer abuse -- WARRANTY VOID."

Byron this is the problem with forums

I was joking with you and you know it.You took a post out of context and turned it around. You have no experiance with us and you look to make us look bad.

I even used double lol's on the post everone can go a page back and see that.

What give's

Gene

[turnpike boy]

Gene, your joke was lost - not only on Byron, but on a few others of us as well. I took your comment as about as smarta$$ as it could possibly be. And, were I in the market for a replacement for my Tremec 3550, you "are assure" you wouldn't be on the radar screen.

There are people who seem to think they're clever enough to make a company pay for their screwups, and it's pretty clear that FordFan69 fits that category. Kiesler may indeed have reason to believe he's lying, but you do not offer any documentation whatsoever to support that posture, despite your contentions to the contrary. That makes your statements equally suspect.

FordFan, happy to hear you're moving on. Kiesler, best of luck in all your future endeavors.

[Burgs]

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

Byron this is the problem with forums

I was joking with you and you know it.You took a post out of context and turned it around. You have no experiance with us and you look to make us look bad.

I even used double lol's on the post everone can go a page back and see that.

What give's

Gene

Byron asked an honest question, and since you answered with a joke for whatever reason, it still remains unanswered.

[ROUSHAC]

No offense intended to anyone in particular, but



Cheers!
Dave

[Buzz]

Posted by turnpike boy:
"Kiesler may indeed have reason to believe he's lying, but you do not offer any documentation whatsoever to support that posture, despite your contentions to the contrary. That makes your statements equally suspect."

It amazes me that people jump in at the end of a long thread and, having (seemingly) chosen not to read the previous posts, decide to make a decisive comment on the issue. A letter from Fordfan to Keisler outlining an inaccurate account of how the damage occurred was posted here:

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

For those that don't wanna click:

Fordfan also admitted that his original story was *ahem* less than factual.

[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by turnpike boy

There are people who seem to think they're clever enough to make a company pay for their screwups, and it's pretty clear that FordFan69 fits that category.

Seems that statement didn't make it to your conscience. Instead you make assertions about what others read...or didn't.

However, you're right; Kiesler does have proof that FordFan is a liar. My statement needed proofreading before posting - it should have said "Kiesler may indeed have reason to believe it's abuse,...". Thank you for your analysis.

And Byron's question - who is responsible to prove abuse? - has yet to be anwered.

[Excaliber]

Whew, no winners on this thread, we should put it to bed.

[ROUSHAC]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Whew, no winners on this thread, we should put it to bed.

I'll second that, Ernie!

Cheers!
Dave

[Buzz]

Weeeell, now its time to say good-bye to Jed and all his kin.
And they would like to thank you folks fer kindly droppin in.
You’re all invited back again to this localitee
To have a heapin helpin of their hospitalitee

Hillbilly that is. Set a spell. Take your shoes off. Y'all come back now, y'hear?

[trularin]

Night John boy.

[ox_ford_guy]

Wheew-ie.... Due to my current Tremec T-5 Trans. "Speedeometer Problem" I have followed this thread from the start. Quite a showcase of human nature.
I saw 4 things that stood out that all parties, and all of us, should learn from this one.

1. Be upfront from the begining and hope for good customer service policy. (Most larger suppliers, to any industry, do not like unhappy customers)
.
2. Recognize a reasonable settlement from a supplier and grab it when offered.
3. Do not respond from emotions. (Watch what you send into cyberspace for all to see) Sarcassim often sends a negative image of a person or business.
4. Although it is a great trans., Tremec may need to step up their current quality control efforts..These transmissions shouldn't break this easily.

And the beat goes on..Will be watching the search engines to see if they pick up on this. In all it has been quite entertaining.........ox_ford-guy

[Fordfan69]

Just to let everyone know, I have received new gears and blocker rings from Keisler as promised.

As far as I'm concerned, this situation is over.