Trouble shifting a TKO 600 while engine

[iwantacobra427]

runs. I can shift into gear with the engine off but can't when the engine is running. I think the clutch is not fully disengaging. I started the engine with the tranny in 1st gear (car is on jack stands still) with the clutch fully depressed. The engine started and the clutch pedal went to the floor and the rear wheels turned!! I bled the master and throwout bearing several times!! What's the likely problem?

[iwantacobra427]

I definitely have a problem now.. Hydraulic oil is leaking from the bottom of the bellhousing.. I guess the TO bearing was over-extended? I don't have a clutch pedal stop. I guess now I have to pull the tranny, clean the bellhousing, adjust the TO bearing so that it's closer to the pressure plate, re-install, install a clutch pedal stop (3/4" rubber bumper??) bleed, etc.. ???

[blykins]

It's a leak/air problem for sure.

That's why I advise customers to not buy hydraulic throw out bearings. They're junk in my eyes. And then when you have a problem, you have to yank the transmission and bellhousing.

I would check all the fittings, reinstall, then you'll definitely need a clutch stop.

[iwantacobra427]

Yeah it's pretty disappointing.. I just got the dynamic timing set.. the engine is running great.. no oil leaks! And now this.. I just hope I don't have to replace the clutch and or pressure plate due to hydraulic oil contamination..

[tcrist]

I would yank it out, pull the clutch and clean it with brake cleaner, then let it dry out. Be sure to clean the flywheel and pressure plate with brake cleaner also. If you wait a day or two then I would replace the clutch plate.
JMO

Terry

[Clois Harlan]

For what it is worth I have had my hydraulic throw out bearing on my Cobra for over seven years now and not a problem with the bearing. There have been a couple times I had problems bleeding the c lutch but that was because I wasn't getting enough pedal extension.

Clois

[jwd]

I guess that's why there are 100's of posts against using a HTOB. My external cyl. has worked flawlessly.

Jim

[JustOne]

I bet one of the fittings isn't tight. Check this first, I have a HTOB on my Unique 289 and it works great. I have had the trans out a couple of times and the only time I had a problem with the HTOB was a loose fitting, which was my fault.

[Pete Munroe]

back in 2003 I went through the very same problem...argghgh.

I now have NO problems with the very FIRST pre-production, 3rd generation McLeod t/o released.

I got it by telling Red McLeod I was not leaving the shop in Anaheim, CA with out it...after pulling the trans TWICE to service the early series bearing...that was too much...and if the 3rd generation wasn't ready...what was going to do...LEAK?

10,000 miles later it is fine. FINE!!!!

The failures on the EARLY bearing were due to excessive clearances on the banjo's...so poorly made there was not an o-ring that cold seal them...BUT
it WAS not the RAM...you must however have a pedal stop to prevent over extension.

The 3rd gen t/o is a knock off of the GM Corvette...(GM abandoned the patent and they jumped on it)...it has machined 90 degree fittings on the side of the ram, not banjo's and o-rings...it is fine.

I have deduced that lately people are having problems withe the RAM 0-rings quality...apparently McLeod was sold, so who knows what has happened.

O-rings are pretty generic, they would have to be pasta to be so bad, but who knows...

post exactly what you have, WHEN you purchased it...it could be an old stock early unit...if you have photos post them

Send me a private mail and I can explain all that learned over the phone.

Pete

[blykins]

Clois, I couldn't find a way to PM you or email you another way....did you get my email from the other day?

[patrickt]

I've lost track of the HTOB issue on ERA FIAs. Is it possible yet to use a tried and true fork/slave combination on the FIAs? Or is there simply no room to fit one in?

[Clois Harlan]

Brent,

No I didn't but here is my email address that seems to work more often than my other one clharlan@dcpmidstream.com

I have been trying to contact you as well. I may need some transmissions for a project soon. email me and I will send you my telephone number so we can talk.

Clois

[Bill Bess]

I have only one comment, something an old boss of mine told me..."Keep it simple stupid".

Hydraulic slave cylinder, steel arm, Std. throwout bearing, easy adjustment...what's not to like. No leaks, no oil, no problems......sounds like a Kenny Chesney song.

Anyway best of luck on solving the problem.
Old Bill

[blykins]

Clois, email sent.

Originally Posted by Clois Harlan

Brent,

No I didn't but here is my email address that seems to work more often than my other one clharlan@dcpmidstream.com

I have been trying to contact you as well. I may need some transmissions for a project soon. email me and I will send you my telephone number so we can talk.

Clois

[bkozlow]

Regarding the stop, forget the rubber and use something that gives a NO GIVE positive stop. A bolt up from the floor to act as a pedal stop, or weld a nut to your pedal and put a bolt in it with the head as the stop against something solid, not the rug, hard againt hard.

If your leak is from over extending the ram, you have a problem. My suggestion is while your disc is drying out from cleaning, contact your bearing manufacturer and get a seal repair kit. Better yet send them the bearing and have them put it back together. Trust me this is no easy job, as they must have special tools to put the seal in.

Then, when you have the trans back from the bell housing or out. put you lines through the clutch arm hole on the bell housing with the bearing attached. Pull the bearing out of where the trans mounts and take two 3/4 pieces of wood, pine is fine. Put one in front of the bearing and the other on the back side. Now hold them gether with a PAIR of C-clamps. Now bleed your system. One of the problems with bleeding this type bearing in the car is that it pushes against something that moves, the diaphragm and it makes getting all the air out difficult. When you bleed all the air out and press down on the pedal as hard as you can, the bearing will probably imprint on the wood but you will not have any air in the system.

Bill K

[Pete Munroe]

Guys, Patrick, IWANTA etal,

ERA uses the hyd bearing in the 289 car because there is no room for a normal clutch arm and actuator. You would have to shorten the clutch arm enough that the loss in leverage is significant.

Call ERA and ask Doug. He will tell you you could shorten the clutch arm to move the clutch. He will also suggest that the pedal effort with a shortened clutch arm is pretty steep. ERA does NOT use a hyd t/o bearing in the ERA 427" as there is plenty of room for a normal clutch actuating arm...not so on the ERA 289 FIA car.

If you have room for a normal clutch set up in your car do it, there is NO reason to use a hyd t/o bearing if a normal setup will work.

YOU have to know WHICH SERIES of McLeod unit you have. The 1st and 2nd generation has banjo's for fluid in and out and they will leak, especially as quality control went to hell.

The THIRD generation, available from 2004 or so forward has NON of the problems with the lines in and out.

You may have over-extened the ram is you do not have a pedal stop set up on the foot box.

If you have an early unit send it to McLeod and they will install the new series housing on the earlier units.

Don't try to rebuild the unit yourself, the tiny screws holding the housing together are almost guarenteed to strip out, and again NEVER RE-USE THE EARLY BEARING...they are junk. The new series is fine.

There ought to be a "sticky" on this problem.

PM if you want, be glad to explain better what I have learned.

Pete

Originally Posted by patrickt

I've lost track of the HTOB issue on ERA FIAs. Is it possible yet to use a tried and true fork/slave combination on the FIAs? Or is there simply no room to fit one in?