Need info for Rebuild Toploader

[priobe]

Ok here it is : Good / Bad / Ugly

Good
I am getting ready to make some final adjustments to gear ratio to lift the body and send it off to get painted. I am now changing my mind to a possible Black with Silver stripes or Titanium with Black strips.

Bad

When lifting the body and at the body shop I would like to rebuild my tranny because it is leaking from the shifter linkage. This is the only place on the car that has a leak and it has an FE motor (knock on wood). The tranny works perfect but from what I have heard I would have to disassemble the whole thing to replace 3 o-rings. I am guessing since I have to go this far, I might as well get a rebuild kit and freshen up the whole tranny.

Ugly
I have never done this before and assuming that I can test the tranny before the body goes on the chassis. My kit does not allow me to drive the car in a go cart form so I would have to test it once the body is back and installed completly painted.

Can some shine some light as to any suggestions during this rebuild?

I am leaning more toward David Kee for the rebuild. However, Toploader heaven sells the tools and cd-r manual to rebuild the tranny with 7 day a week support.

Has anyone ever did this for the 1st time and used anyone of these companies?

Thanks

[Woodz428]

The first time I did it was in the early 70s, so none of those companies were around. I think, but have a Ford bias, they are an easy tranny to pull down and rebuild. Like anything, attention to detail is important. The hardest part for a novice would likely be installing the countershaft pin and the bearings. I have an old countershaft pin that I shortened and use it and push it out with the pin I am using. That is something overlooked too many times...the wear on that pin. Depending on how many miles are on it that may need replaced, if it does, don't try to get by with just the bearings....it would be a waste of effort.
Typical attention to synchros and gears while it is apart are always important.
It's been a while since I did one and forgot that you had to pull it down to replace the o-rings...I thought that you could do it from under the arms. But when I refreshed my grey matter with a manual, I see that.

[blykins]

I've done a couple and it's not bad...just a little tedious with the small parts. My first kit was with David Kee. I like his road race kit as it comes with good ball bearings with a higher quantity of balls.

You'll need a bearing press and some good snap ring pliers.

[priobe]

do you know where I could get a good pair of the snap ring pliers.

I am guess it would be better to goto a shop for the press rather than buying one

[blykins]

The snap rings are not the usual ones with holes at each end that you put the snap ring plier stubs into. These are thick rings with beveled ends and the pliers have two flat little arms that stick out. I'll see if I can find a picture.

As for the bearings, you can have a shop press on the input shaft bearing, but the output shaft bearing has to be pressed on with the guts in the case. You can either use a press, or you can use a good brass drift and a hammer....or a long section of pipe that fits the inner race. I've done it several different ways. You could also heat the bearing in boiling water, then slip it on with welding gloves...it should go on rather easily like that...probably by hand.

[blykins]

Here ya go...that's what the pliers look like:

http://www.gwtoolco.com/HL/G-251Gcopy.JPG

[priobe]

Thanks

I purchased the pliers.


Do you think it is a good idea to rebuild it when the body comes off. Keep in mind I will not be able to test the tranny until the body goes back on.

Then the body will be painted and I would hate to lean over the body after paint has been applied.

Basically, can I turn the input shaft and check the output shaft for the engagement of the different gears?

[blykins]

Yes, there's really not much to a Toploader. You can test it while it's sitting on the bench. Just put a wrench on the shifter lugs and run it through the gears.

Before you jump in, have a nice clean workbench. Read through the instructions and drawings a couple of times and see where all the different detents fit on the shifter rails. There is also an interlock pin, about the size of a grain of rice. It's easy to lose in a case full of dirty grease, so keep your eye on it. It keeps you from being able to shift into two different gears at once.

When you disassemble, just note the way things come out and really inspect each gear. You will receive new synchronizer blocking rings in your kit and you will see how each engagement tooth is nice and pointed. The engagement teeth on the gears themselves need to have the same nice and pointy teeth...otherwise you're get some slugglish shifting. You may have to replace one or two if they're blunt on the ends.

When you start, you can post if you need help. I've done a couple so I can help you through it.

[patrickt]

Priobe, I won't belabor the point, but are you absolutely 100% sure that your transmission is leaking? Oil drops under the transmission are not proof positive. FEs (and in fact, my FE) would leak ever so slightly and the leak trail would invisibly head back to the transmission and drop from there. The only way I proved to myself that it was not a transmission leak was to put the UV dye in the crankcase and then shine a light on the drips on the cement under the transmission. Sure enough, they glowed in the dark. Just thought I'd toss it out there for you.

[priobe]

Patrickt,

Where can I get this dye?

I would not mind giving it a shot.

However, the oil on the floor is gear lube and on the motor it is bone dry.

But as long as this dye does not harm anything I can give it a shot to be 100% sure.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Either way I will still be bummed to have a leak.

I hope it is not the motor, I hope it is not the motor, I hope it is not the motor.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by priobe

Where can I get this dye?

Any local auto parts store, like AutoZone for instance, will have the dye and a little UV flashlight. You can get it for about $20.

[blykins]

You should be able to tell the difference between thick gear oil and motor oil. If you can smell it, you'll know which one it is.

Toploaders will leak from around the shifter cams because there are o-rings behind each one. It is very well possible that it's leaking from there.

[w-lewis]

I just had my TopLoader rebuilt by Southern Automotive, in McDonough, just ouside of Atlanta. They converted my wide ratio to a close ratio and did a great job. Price was reasonable. I have another TopLoader in another car that was built by SA. Never had a problem with it.

[Chaplain]

Hi Priobe. I rebuilt a toploader about 10 years ago and consulted with a local racer/expert at the time and it went pretty easy. The main thing I had done was I brought the case to a machine shop and had them "cook" out all the sludge and chase all the threads. The next thing I had them do is spin the main shaft bearing surfaces to where the bearings were a slip fit. I brought the new bearings from the kit I bought and had them use them as a gauge. This only required removing very little metal, they did it with emery paper. This greatly facilitated assembly. Use wheel bearing grease to stick and hold all the roller bearings in place, the trans lube will "wash" it out once you start using it. Lastly, I was told (don't know if it's true) don't lose the "rice" sized detent previously mentioned, because they are fitted to each transmission and consequently are a bear to replace. The only problem I had was that the shift forks are held to the rail with allen head set screws. On one of them the hex stripped out. I ended up drilling it and then removing it with a Lisle Super Out.

[PDUB]

See the following link for info on the rebuild...

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/transmission-talk/96764-toploader-information-here.html#post946847

Good luck!

[priobe]

Chaplain or blykins,


Ok I am in the middle of the build ready for reassembly.

Where does the rice grain detent go?

The illustration is kind of unclear.

[blykins]

The rice looking thing is the interlock pin. It goes between the two detents as shown in Patrick's page scan. It keeps the trans from going into two gears at once. There should be a little tiny bore in the 3rd/4th rail. It goes in there. Put a little thick grease around it to keep it from falling out.

[Excaliber]

Pretty common mistake for that "rice pin" to fall out of it's shift rail hole during assembly. Watch it like a hawk!

I just had my trans out recently and refreshed it with new synchro's only, piece of cake.

A note on the synchro's. They are not all created equal. Some have slightly larger more defined teeth than others. It's a subtle thing. I use the BEST of the lot for second gear as it takes the most punishment.

[priobe]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the advice..... GREATLY!!!

I will definitly use the advice posted. Wish me luck this weekend

I will just need to make some space for my laptop for references

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by priobe

I will definitly use the advice posted. Wish me luck this weekend ... I will just need to make some space for my laptop for references

I suggest printing the pages out. Either my server, or your laptop, will crash right after you drop all the little pieces on the floor... and the dog runs off with at least one of them, maybe two.