TKO 600 noise

maxum_101 · #1 (**permalink**) 06-15-2009, 09:18 PM

hi all,

i have a tko 600 mated to a 392 ford crate engine and i think a centerforce clutch, i say think cause i can see orange thru the fork opening. now i have a slight chatter sound that is present while the car idels and gets louder as you rev up the engine a bit, and when i put in the clutch the noise goes away, i have never changed the oil in the box , approx 800 miles on tranny and motor, im thinking its the clutch but not sure if its the tranny and how the gears are ,,, are the gears always turning in the box even when in neutral?
i have read here that the fluid in these tranny are not really good that gm dexron or something like that is better to use. has a hyd clutch.

anyone one else have this issue? would it be the clutch or the tranny making this noise?

also i havnt checked oil level in the tranny yet, could that cause the noise if the oil level was low?

not sure if this makes a diffrence but the car is a superformance.

thanks for any input on this

Sinjin · #2 (**permalink**) 06-15-2009, 10:20 PM

Sounds Like the chatter from a triple plate clutch

xlr8or · #3 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 12:27 AM

If you have a center force pressure plate it is probably the weights attached to it.

undy · #4 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 03:42 AM

It could be a throwout bearing. When you load it it doesn't chatter. It usually will get worse unitl it fails.

How old's the clutch? Any other problems with it?

Dave

blykins · #5 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 04:04 AM

Everything still turns inside the trans when it's in neutral and the clutch is released.

Sounds like it's a clutch issue, and I agree with Dave, it sounds like the throw out bearing.

When you say that you have a hydraulic clutch, do you have a master/slave setup with a clutch fork, or are you using a hydraulic throw out bearing?

Shoot me an email and I'll help you do some troubleshooting.

RICK LAKE · #6 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 04:06 AM

maxum_101 If the noise goes away with the clutch pedal engaged, It's either the thrown out bearing or the pressure plate springs broken in the disc. You are going to need to pull the trans to repair. I would also tell you to get another clutch from another company. E-mail Brent B. on this forum. He sell clutches of different styles for the best prices. I had major problem with a Centerforce that cost me $6,500.00 to fix. If you stay withthis clutch remove the weights on the pressure plate. This will to shifting issues at about 3,000 rpms. Rick L.Ps there's Brent

elmariachi · #7 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 08:45 AM

I agree, get with Brent and talk it out. He is very knowledgeable and can source all your parts and components.

maxum_101 · #8 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 01:28 PM

the clutch is a centerforce clutch, i was under the car and can see thru the hole where the clutch fork goes. now when looking at it i see that the throw out bearing is always spinning even while in neutral, is it supposed to be like that? i alway thought that the thro out bearing only spins when you press the clutch in.

now i also noticed that my clutch fork moves a bit up and down in the hole in the bell housing and because of that the threaded rod tend to not push out in a straight line, and eventually the fork will drop down and then the threaded rod is on a bit of an angle, i hope im explaining this that you can get an idea of what im talking about.

blykins · #9 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 01:44 PM

I shot you an email back.

patrickt · #10 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxum_101

i see that the throw out bearing is always spinning even while in neutral, is it supposed to be like that? i alway thought that the thro out bearing only spins when you press the clutch in.

When the TO bearing contacts the pressure plate's release fingers only then should it begin to rotate (along with the PP assembly). As the TO bearing continues to move forward, the pressure on the release fingers causes the force of the pressure plate's springs to push away from the disc. When you take your foot off the pedal and engage the clutch, the TO bearing moves away from the pressure plate and the springs then engage the clutch to the flywheel. The TO bearing should then be stationary; it should not rotate with the pressure plate.

EDIT -- Here's a link to an old post of mine on how to adjust your clutch. Before you yank the bellhousing off, try adjusting your clutch (although the fact that it sounds like you can "wiggle" the fork is slightly concerning.... Clutch slipping question - HELP PLEASE! (about half way down the page)

madmaxx · #11 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 01:51 PM

You have no problem, what you are hearing is neutral rollover rattle and is completely normal. When you are idleing you loppy engine the gears chatter due to the backlash in them. When you disengage the clutch (push it down) the transmission input shaft quits turning and therefore you gears are not turning and voila you noise goes away. The sound can be described as loose marbles.

I have experienced in every manual transmission I have owned to some extent.

blykins · #12 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 01:52 PM

McLeod's instructions state that on mechanical actuation (linkages), there should be about 1/4" between the pressure plate and the throw out bearing face.

On cable/hydraulic setups, the bearing should lightly touch the pressure plate.

On hydraulic setups, I usually set it up so that the bearing is just a hair away from the fingers.

As I mentioned in the email, if you're able to get under the car SAFELY, see if you can pinpoint where the noise is coming from. Maybe have someone actuate the clutch while you're under there (again, SAFELY).

From my experience, bad TOB's usually sound like a whirring sound. It will go away immediately upon clutch actuation.

madmaxx · #13 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 01:54 PM

This is a ridiculous diagnosis. A new tko 600 and associated bell housing, clutch, install, would run $3K where the heck is $6.5k come from. You are way off on your diagnosis. If you like to give money away send some to Obama.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

maxum_101 If the noise goes away with the clutch pedal engaged, It's either the thrown out bearing or the pressure plate springs broken in the disc. You are going to need to pull the trans to repair. I would also tell you to get another clutch from another company. E-mail Brent B. on this forum. He sell clutches of different styles for the best prices. I had major problem with a Centerforce that cost me $6,500.00 to fix. If you stay withthis clutch remove the weights on the pressure plate. This will to shifting issues at about 3,000 rpms. Rick L.Ps there's Brent

madmaxx · #14 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 01:56 PM

Lets see noise could be:
A) rattle
B) Whirling
C) clicking
D) fuking
g) licking
h) barking
I) talking

which one is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxum_101

hi all,

i have a tko 600 mated to a 392 ford crate engine and i think a centerforce clutch, i say think cause i can see orange thru the fork opening. now i have a slight chatter sound that is present while the car idels and gets louder as you rev up the engine a bit, and when i put in the clutch the noise goes away, i have never changed the oil in the box , approx 800 miles on tranny and motor, im thinking its the clutch but not sure if its the tranny and how the gears are ,,, are the gears always turning in the box even when in neutral?
i have read here that the fluid in these tranny are not really good that gm dexron or something like that is better to use. has a hyd clutch.

anyone one else have this issue? would it be the clutch or the tranny making this noise?

also i havnt checked oil level in the tranny yet, could that cause the noise if the oil level was low?

not sure if this makes a diffrence but the car is a superformance.

thanks for any input on this

blykins · #15 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 01:59 PM

You may want to ask Rick what sort of issues he had that cost him $6500 before calling his diagnosis ridiculous. Rick is a GM certified tech with years and years under his belt.

We all know that C/F stuff isn't cheap....it wouldn't take long to go through a couple grand in replacement parts....maybe not $6500, but there again, maybe it's more polite to ask him what's up instead of immediately jumping down his throat. We all have bad days now and then, but how about some benefit of doubt and less sarcasm. If you think you're too qualified to answer these posts, then my advice is....don't.

patrickt · #16 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 02:01 PM

Maxum -- if this was my car I would adjust the clutch and just wait for the problem to get worse. If it's something bad, it will indeed get worse.

blykins · #17 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 02:11 PM

It is very true that manual transmissions have a certain amount of noise to them. If the noise he is experiencing isn't blatantly horrible, that advice may be sound.

patrickt · #18 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blykins

It is very true that manual transmissions have a certain amount of noise to them. If the noise he is experiencing isn't blatantly horrible, that advice may be sound.

And if he doesn't have a blowproof bellhousing then he should ignore my advice entirely. Regarding Rick L.'s numbers, as I recall he told me that he had been using his wife's antique Belleek China bowl to catch the clutch fluid, and when the TO bearing slipped off, it landed in the middle of the bowl and broke it. He was forced to replace the bowl with like kind, thus the unusually large cost involved.

blykins · #19 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 02:20 PM

I heard it was that he put a flat tappet cam in his engine.....the clutch noise took his attention away from a perfect cam break in. ;-)

*Inside joke y'all*

madmaxx · #20 (**permalink**) 06-16-2009, 02:30 PM

I agree, I probably was too critical but to throw out diagnosis without clarifying the issue could cause a naive individual to take premature action and waste alot of dollars. I know my diagnosis is correct. Please send the $65.00 diagnosis fee. In all seriousness he has no problem, the noise his is experiencing is normal. If he would have state performance issues, such as difficult shifting, popping out of gear, slipping clutch etc it would be a concern. To verify he needs to put the car in neutral, clutch out and rev the engine to about 1500 rpms if the noise goes away it is gear rollover noise and is normal.

I run into alot of guys with 20 years, problem is it is 1 year 20 times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blykins

You may want to ask Rick what sort of issues he had that cost him $6500 before calling his diagnosis ridiculous. Rick is a GM certified tech with years and years under his belt.

We all know that C/F stuff isn't cheap....it wouldn't take long to go through a couple grand in replacement parts....maybe not $6500, but there again, maybe it's more polite to ask him what's up instead of immediately jumping down his throat. We all have bad days now and then, but how about some benefit of doubt and less sarcasm. If you think you're too qualified to answer these posts, then my advice is....don't.