TKO 600 noise

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by maxum_101

elmariachi... so are you saying that there are throw out bearings that always spin?

Apparently so. Brent said that Red at McLeod confirmed that we need a "constant contact" bearing, and I had a local TKO guy tell me earlier today that the proper configuration for their pressure plate and clutch is that the TO bearing touch the fingers. The goal is to make sure you have enough slave throw to disengage and then fully release the clutch, and the resulting position at rest when the pedal is out "is what it is," and may result in them touching. I have a healthy return spring and I suppose its okay if you can get it to give you an air gap, but I think McLeod sees that as secondary to making sure you have proper throw to make the clutch work effectively.

EDIT>>> Service Manual says 3 quarts of GM Synchromesh fluid, part # 12345349. IIRC it takes a little less that 3 quarts to get it to the fill mark on the side of the case.

[RICK LAKE]

RodgerH It is both good and bad to know that I was not the only one to be danced around the stupid pole by Centerforce and come to find out that the weights where the problem. You would think that the Techs or engineers who design this part would know that there could be a problem shifting with this clutch. Mcleod sells a Soft-Loc race clutch that I know 3 people are using. There are numberous adjustments for pedal pressure, slipping, rpm lockup, and I think even arm length adjustments. You get a 13 page manual on how to setup, breakin, and basic setting on the pressure plate and weights on the arms. Centerforce, bolts right on, easy on the clutch for the first 500 miles. A couple of heat cycles. McLeod easy driving for 500 miles no slipping and no uverheating the clutch, just cruising.
Rodger you know the worst part was asking the guy to tell me how there pressure plate with the weights applys more pressure. I was told the weight slide outward to increase force on the fingers of the pressure plate. I told the guy that HOW is it possible to shift the car when add pressure to the forks is applyed. I got no answer also. I did get a nice two step on this. Rick L.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodgerH

Patrick,

Did you remove the weights on your Centerforce pressure plate?

Sounds like Rick did so, and I also did before I installed my clutch.

Yes, weights removed on the advice of smart guys who had gone down the road in the past. For example, here Chuck Brandt talks about removing his CF weights and includes pictures. http://www.chuckbrandt.com/living.htm

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

I told the guy that HOW is it possible to shift the car when add pressure to the forks is applyed. I got no answer also. I did get a nice two step on this. Rick L.

Rant light on: You guys are a hell of a lot more patient than me, I would be removing that crap and sending it back to them. Until customers start calling BS on companies who act like they don't care once they get your money, they'll just keep on acting that way.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by maxum_101

but how does one explain the noise going away when i press in the clutch?

When you stab the clutch in, everything inside the trans stops spinning.

[kitcarbp]

Just to add credibility to the previuous posts about CF issues, I too tried the CF clutch with my TKO 600 and 460 BB. Using a McLeod HTOB, I quickly realized upon my first mock-up that the HTOB face interferred with the CF weights before contacting the PP fingers. Ahhh welcome to the world of aftermarket half engineered parts I told myself. I was patient being a rookie builder and could not find a TOB to work after consulting CF tech line (clueless folks) a couple of times. Then I learned of folks here on CC removing the weights to solve the problem. This makes no sense to me, thats like buying a sports car with a 500 hp engine and since you cant get it to run right just replace it with a 200hp 4 banger. Remove the weights and the centrifigal clamping increase benefit is gone (if it works as stated) Soooo, This is where it matters where you buy your parts! Summit Racing took back my CF clutch without any discussion and after consulting with Red and others @ McLeod I went with a dual friction disc McLeod street clutch from Summit and was back on track in 2 days time. I am about to test fire the chassis and will report back any issues with adjustments and shifting. This CC site is the best techline in the world for us rookie builders and thanks to all who share info to prevent the next guy from getting frustrated.

[patrickt]

I didn't really have a good reason for going with Centerforce. I bought the aluminum flywheel, PP, TOB, and disk for a TKO all in "one fell swoop." The aluminum flywheel is mucho overpriced, and the little weights (gone) I think are just a gimmick. But other than that, it's a damn good setup and works very well.

[maxum_101]

update....


ok i first removed the hyd slave and pulled the fork all the way back, started car and looked in the opening and the throw out bearing was not spinning and yet noise was still there, pressed on the fork to engage the thro out bearing and no increase in noise, pulled the fork back and watched the throw out bearing slow to a stop. OK so its not my throw out bearing, turned off car and put it all back together.

drained the tranny fluid, was bright red in color, and refilled with GM syncromesh.

took the car out for a nice drive, at first the noise seemed to be gone, but after getting some heat into it the noise was there....MIND YOU its not anywhere near as to what it was before, but there is still a noise just not as loud.

so my next questions,, is this noise normal for the TKO 600? could it be that the tranny still needs to "break in" there is only 850 miles on it.

or am i just a paranoid spaz and reading too much into it.....

a friend of mine said it could be the pilot bearing, cause when i told him the noise goes away when i push in the clutch, he then said ... pilot bearing.

any other things i could check?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by maxum_101

so my next questions,, is this noise normal for the TKO 600? could it be that the tranny still needs to "break in" there is only 850 miles on it.

Can you make an audio file of the sound? If you can put your Blackberry up there and record the sound, then email me the audio file, I'll make it available for everyone to hear.

[blykins]

Do you have any car buddies that can come over and listen?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Do you have any car buddies that can come over and listen?

Brent, I want you to diagnose a sound that you're not alowed to hear... then from there we'll move on to see if you can appreciate the shades of a pastel that you're not allowed to see... then we'll top it off with your final treat -- a crème brûlée. Of course you won't be allowed to taste it, but you'll be expected to act as a food critic and assess its flavor nonetheless.

[blykins]

Of course I was asking Maxum if he had any car savvy buddies that could go over to his house and listen to this noise. It would be much easier than us trying to diagnose it from here.....

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Of course I was asking Maxum if he had any car savvy buddies that could go over to his house and listen to this noise. It would be much easier than us trying to diagnose it from here.....

But that won't help you. And if he knew anybody that was really savvy he wouldn't be coming to us....

[blykins]

No, but it might help him. And it would be more accurate than listening to it over a Blackberry phone.

[madmaxx]

Accept and savior reality. YOU DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM. Noise decrease with new lube probably because it has higher viscoisty or thicker. Even though lubes say 90W there is a huge viscoisty range at 90W. This is so classic, try taking the gas tank down and see if the noise goes away. In the end you will end up creating a problem since you wont put something back together correctly.

Originally Posted by maxum_101

update....


ok i first removed the hyd slave and pulled the fork all the way back, started car and looked in the opening and the throw out bearing was not spinning and yet noise was still there, pressed on the fork to engage the thro out bearing and no increase in noise, pulled the fork back and watched the throw out bearing slow to a stop. OK so its not my throw out bearing, turned off car and put it all back together.

drained the tranny fluid, was bright red in color, and refilled with GM syncromesh.

took the car out for a nice drive, at first the noise seemed to be gone, but after getting some heat into it the noise was there....MIND YOU its not anywhere near as to what it was before, but there is still a noise just not as loud.

so my next questions,, is this noise normal for the TKO 600? could it be that the tranny still needs to "break in" there is only 850 miles on it.

or am i just a paranoid spaz and reading too much into it.....

a friend of mine said it could be the pilot bearing, cause when i told him the noise goes away when i push in the clutch, he then said ... pilot bearing.

any other things i could check?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

No, but it might help him. And it would be more accurate than listening to it over a Blackberry phone.

I dunno... I'd rather rely on listening to a decent audio file than his moron friends that will probably tell him it's the jiggle plug resonating through the drive train. I'm with Madmax on this one. Just adjust the clutch and leave it alone. If it's anything of any consequence it will eventually manifest itself in an indisputable fashion. In the meantime, he's got a blow-proof bellhousing; it would ruin my week if my bad advice resulted in him getting the nickname "Shorty."

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

If it's anything of any consequence it will eventually manifest itself in an indisputable fashion.

And THEN you can post pictures of THAT.