Tremec TKO 600 shifting problems

[Lon SPF 2798]

I have an SPF Cobra MK II with Woush 427SR making 500HP with a TREMEC TKO 6000 model 5008. I have been experiencing some difficulting shifting into third gear primarily, but also into fifth and most recently into first gears. I can usually get it back into second or fourth OK , and then usually after some fiddling back into third or whatever.

Only have 2300 miles on car so am not expecting worn out clutch. I have adjusted the clutch slave activation arm per instructions as well as clutch peddle throw length.

I have found another forum discussing similar problems with TKO 600 transmissions(not shifting into third) in other applications. I am wondering if the members of this forum might have more insight and ideas for a fix.

Is there a way to tell for sure if this is my problem, or determine what else may be causing my symtoms?


Thanks

Lon #2798

[Lon SPF 2798]

Sorry, I also have trouble typing. "Woush" Should have been "Roush".

[coosawjack]

Is your clutch releasing completely??

Mine does some spooky stuff when the clutch needs adjustment!!

[blykins]

First thing to check on something like this where it goes into gear easily in 2nd, 4th, etc., is the shifter ring/boot. It could have moved, causing the shifter to be prohibited in its movement.

Also, if you have an aftermarket shifter, check that the stops are set correctly.

If you were having trouble in all gears, I would suggest checking the clutch adjustment and/or bleeding the master/slave cylinders.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by Lon SPF 2798

I have an SPF Cobra MK II with Woush 427SR making 500HP with a TREMEC TKO 6000 model 5008. I have been experiencing some difficulting shifting into third gear primarily, but also into fifth and most recently into first gears. I can usually get it back into second or fourth OK , and then usually after some fiddling back into third or whatever.

Only have 2300 miles on car so am not expecting worn out clutch. I have adjusted the clutch slave activation arm per instructions as well as clutch peddle throw length.

I have found another forum discussing similar problems with TKO 600 transmissions(not shifting into third) in other applications. I am wondering if the members of this forum might have more insight and ideas for a fix.

Is there a way to tell for sure if this is my problem, or determine what else may be causing my symtoms?


Thanks

Lon #2798

Lon,

Welcome to CC and congrats on the SPF! Once you rule out any possible mechanical problems, you may find (as others have) that the second to third shift on the TKO600 can take a little getting used to. You might want to explore the idea of installing a quick shift kit like the Steeda Tri-Ax. It shortens the throw and improves the shift from second to third.

Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter

I don't know about others, but it took me some time to get comfortable with the TKO-600. You've got to be smooth...try to jam it or push it to hard, and it seems to increase the chance of a mis-shift. Again, just my experience with it so far.

[patrickt]

Lon, remove the shift boot and trim ring completely and make sure your linkage doesn't look like this. Then, with the boot and ring still removed, take the car for a drive and see if it shifts any different with that stuff out of the way.

[undy]

Sure sounds like you might not be getting full clutch disengagement..

[jwoodard]

What bell housing is on your engine? Your problem could be a result of improper alignment of the bell housing. This is very critical with Lakewood blowout proof bell housings and may apply to others as well. Just a thought.

[madmaxx]

standard spf uses a hydraulic clutch set up. Only adjustment would be push rod. Look at the slave cylinder from top and have someone push the clutch, you should 1-2" of movement. Looking at mine, my push rod is not adjustable, in other words nothing is adjustable so if it is bled correctly the slave should be out of the picture.

Do you have a standard spf set up?
as everyone has stated remove the beauty ring and boot and go for a drive. you can try double clutching to take the synch out of the picture. in other words push in clucth, shift to neautral, let out clutch, push in clutch and shift to third or whatever, it should go in like butter.

[Lon SPF 2798]

Thanks guys for all of the comments.

I do have the standard SPF set up except I do have an adjustable clutch slave activation rod.

Most people that I have talked to conclude that if the clutch were the problem, I would be having trouble shifting into all the gears, and that I would hear grinding sounds. I have no trouble getting to 2nd, 4th or Reverse and no grinding sounds. It feels like there is just no gate to shift into 3rd.

I have tried removing the boot and there is no external restriction on the shifter movement. I have the original TREMEC shifter.

I changed tranny oil on the recommendation of a transmission technician from TEXACO Mercon to the GM Synchromesh oil PN 12345???. The tranny shifts noticeably smoother when it does shift, but still hangs up occassionally.


I have found that when I have the problem going into 3rd, if I shift back to 2nd or 4th and then back to 3rd without letting the clutch out that it usually will not go into gear. However, if I shift back to 2nd or 4th and let the clutch out, then reengage clutch it will usually go into 3rd. Is this a clue I wonder.


I do have Quicktime Blow proof bell housing. How can this be adjusted? How can it effect the shifting? Why would this problem start after 2300 miles.

Thanks again
Lon SPF 2798

[TomR]

Lon,

You got my PM and the link to the web page describing 3rd gear problems I had and fixed with my TKO600? It is an almost idential setup with the Quicktime bell but I have a cable clutch linkage.

Tom

[Johan Ras]

Tom,
Can you please forward me the link aswell,as i have the same problem as Lon.
ThankYou.

[TomR]

Originally Posted by Johan Ras

Tom,
Can you please forward me the link aswell,as i have the same problem as Lon.
ThankYou.

This may help. I'll try to get some picture up someday of the transmission internals.

http://www.w8ji.com/tko_600_shifting_problems.htm


Tom

[rj8806]

Did you dial in the bell housing? What was you runout numbers?

Typically, hard to get into 1st gear points to a clutch issue while hard to get into 3rd usually points to driver error. Now, before you guys jump on me for saying that, consider this.....
The gates on the TKO are very close together. When shifting from 2nd into 3rd, if you move the shifter up at an angle trying to "guide it" into 3rd, you will likely miss it every time. Try throwing the shifter STRAIGHT out of 2nd and it will find 3rd on all it's own.

When did you buy this gearbox? There were some issues with the shift lugs back in the summer of '05 that Tremec has since cleared up.


By the way....The only 2 fluids that have approved for use the TKO are either ATF Dexron III or GM Syncromesh 12345349.





Richard
Tech Support
Tremec TKO, T45 & T56 Transmission Systems

[Blittleton]

I totally agree with RJ, going from 2nd to 3rd is nothing more than pushing the shifter lever forward and it will go right in. Many of the Demo's that I do with customers, they must be thinking of their Hot Rod or the 69 camaro and you had to physically put the lever into 3rd gear. Typically if you have a shorter lever, I find it more difficult to change gears, the longer levers that our Backdraft's have, make for a really nice shift. I belive that there is a kit from some of the suppliers of TKO that have different sychro's. I'm not 100% on that.

Bill

[TomR]

Originally Posted by rj8806

Did you dial in the bell housing? What was you runout numbers?

The runout numbers were withing the error that could be caused by surface irregularities in the bellhousing hole, so they were not a factor.

T

ypically, hard to get into 1st gear points to a clutch issue while hard to get into 3rd usually points to driver error. Now, before you guys jump on me for saying that, consider this.....
The gates on the TKO are very close together. When shifting from 2nd into 3rd, if you move the shifter up at an angle trying to "guide it" into 3rd, you will likely miss it every time. Try throwing the shifter STRAIGHT out of 2nd and it will find 3rd on all it's own.

That may be true, but I have a history of being able to shift almost anything that can be shifted. I'm well aware of all the different methods of pushing the level, and this transmission had real issues going into third.

When did you buy this gearbox? There were some issues with the shift lugs back in the summer of '05 that Tremec has since cleared up

.

I bought the transmission about a month ago, and it was fresh inventory.

I tried to post a link to my summary of what I went through but it was not accepted. Bottom line is I pulled the case apart, and sent the shifting forks and shifting rail system up to Liberty's Gears in Michigan. They did not modify anything other than the shifting rails and dogs and one shift fork.

With NO OTHER CHANGES in the system I re-installed the parts, and now I never miss when I shift. I can shift at 7000, i can point and push, i can let it fall in, and it never misses.

There is no doubt at all Tremec has not fixed the "non-problem" that can be found mentioned all over Internet in all of the transmissions, because my transmission was clearly the problem with the shift rail issues that Liberty's Gears claims they see in over 100 transmissions a year. Since what they did fixed mine, I now believe the "nearly 100% correction" rate for bad shifting they claimed is probably true.

It's my understanding they weld up and re-shape some parts, increase some spring pressures, and do a few other mods. Had I listened to the shop Tremec sent me to I would have spent over a thousand dollars changing parts that made no sense. The absolute proof is, with no other changes, it works now. It also only cost about $200 to fix, since I tore the transmission down myself.

They really should fix the problem, or at least pay for the repairs.

Tom

[TomR]

Originally Posted by Blittleton

I totally agree with RJ, going from 2nd to 3rd is nothing more than pushing the shifter lever forward and it will go right in. Many of the Demo's that I do with customers, they must be thinking of their Hot Rod or the 69 camaro and you had to physically put the lever into 3rd gear. Typically if you have a shorter lever, I find it more difficult to change gears, the longer levers that our Backdraft's have, make for a really nice shift. I belive that there is a kit from some of the suppliers of TKO that have different sychro's. I'm not 100% on that.

Bill

First, the feel while shifting slow is entirely different from the feel while shifting fast under acceleration. My transmission felt very good and was easy to shift while granny-shifting.

It could be we are talking about two different cases.

Respectfully, I disagree with the long shifter totally Bill for faster shifting. It argues against what many people say the problem is, the operator guiding the shifter.

A short shifter is much more difficult for the operator to guide, the springs and gates in the transmission have much more control when the shifter is short. As the lever is made longer, any driver push error (to the sides) has a larger and larger effect at the gate.

If I had a shifting system that required the gate to be controlled by internal springs (like the TKO 600), I would use a short lever. This would give the springs in the transmission more control compared to pressure errors made by the operator.

As a matter of fact Liberty's actually told me to never use a long lever on the TKO-600. They said to use the shortest handle possible, and to use a ball. Fortunately that's what I already do. :-)

Tom

[ekrupa2]

About 4500 miles on my TKO 600. No shifting issues at all. I have had the standard Cobra shifter and recently switched to the Jordan shifter (shorter throw). Both feel great. A few things I made sure of after reading about the TKO on this forum - the hole I made in the tunnel is centered above the shifter, I always use 3rd when I park and shut down, always shift to second before reverse. The only time I have had any issues was when my clutch slave wasnt adjusted properly. Hopefully this trend continues but maybe by me posting I have jinxed myself.

[Blittleton]

Tom,

I never mention that the longer lever makes faster shifts. But stated that the longer lever made it a nice shift. Respectively... If you take a longer lever such as Backdraft's lever, all you have to do is push the lever forward and it will go right in 3rd gear. I'm not talking speed shifting. Thanks

Bill

[Chilibit]

Bill,

Mr. Bondurant said the exact same to some of our members whose cars he drove at London this year.

I switched away from Bob Jordan's shifter (which is a piece of sturdy jewelry) and back to the regular Superformance lever because the shorter lever lured me into a quicker pace which I thought was not in sync with the natural rhythm of the TKO. This is just for street driving or an occasional track day. I am the exception in that most everyone loves the Jordan shifter. I had the same result with a Cooper S short shift kit. But there it was the emission controls delaying RPM decay.

Vince (KCC)