pros & cons of different engines

[BlueRooster]

Can somone give a good detailed description of the good and bad of different big block engines for cobras? I am trying to come up with the best combo and I cant seem to find anything descent in the archives.

[427 S/O]

'Pro' you got a 427 side oiler...
'con' you got whatever.......

[BlueRooster]

Thats some reply from a senior member.
I've read that there were 428s installed in original cobras also. How much do different engines hurt resale?

[klayfish]

Blue,
I can't suggest what is the best BB combo, as I'm a small block guy. I think you may want to post this in the All Cobra Talk section of the forum, as most of the guys here in the Tri-States are small block racers.

Personally, I would recommend deciding what you want to use the car for most, then that can help decide what motor to use. If you are looking for a nice street cruiser and want a big block, lots of people use the 460. If you must have something more "period correct", you can spend more money and get the 427 or 428. Just depends on what is important to you.

Don't pick a motor for its' resale. Resale should not be a major issue when chosing your Cobra, as you will never got out what you put in. Not saying ignore resale altogether, but don't let it be the deciding factor. Build what YOU want.

Steve

[427 S/O]

BlueRooster, just funning, the majority would choose a 427 side oiler but, as Klayfish said, don't pick a motor for it's resale and, build what you want. all your questions can be answered on this site,
just do a search.

[BlueRooster]

Thanks guys, I came here first because Im from NJ and I thought I'd talk to some locals first. I have done a lot research on the site and theres a ton. It seems that most BBs fetch the same price, even small blocks are in the same range...not easy. Thanks

[Roscoe]

Blue,
If your sole concern is resale than the 427 or 428 bb is your choice. However, no many of us build/buy these cars for their resale. We have them to DRIVE. But if that is your concern then fine.

As Klayfish so eloquently stated, many of the Joisey boys have smallblocks. There are some exceptions and I hear there is a REAL one around with a side oiler....what's his name again?

Small blocks are less expensive to build, parts are more readily available, more room to work on them and, I believe, better track performance. Plus, a stroked small block can put out well over 500 hp.

Take a look at The Engine Factory web site. http://www.fordcobraengines.com/

Roscoe

[dana]

Bluerooster,
There are many variations of big blocks: 427, 428, 429 are the basic ones.
Of course each one can be 'stroked' for larger displacement: 427 to a 454 is one, 429 can go to 460 or 514. If the block is bored out the numbers will be slightly higher.
Ford sells crate '429's' as either 460 or 514, they have 2 (or did 2 years ago) 460's with different setups for 485 or 535 horsepower. their 514's are rated at 600 horsepower.
From my research years ago, (just 2) about half of the original 427 s/c came with 427 and half with 428. The supply of 427's were scarce and cost twice the 428s, so...
The 427's were rated at 425 hp and the 428s at 350 with the same torque. (this is all from memory, and I have sometimers)
427's are going to cost between $ 12,000 and 25,000 to build. I have heard good things about southern automotive. I know 2 guys who love their 427's from them. My neighbor had his 427 built for $25,000, a little pricey i would say.

If you go ford crate, then some of the big blocks will be less expensive than the stroker small blocks! I got a 392 small block stroker for more than the 460, and the 514 was very close to the same price!

I drove both a small block and a big block back to back to back to see how they handled, how they accelerated, how the came out of turns under power. I was used to porsches with small hp and great handling, and high speed capiblities.
I could really feel the difference in front weight of the bb vs sb. I was looking for a driver not a show car. (I would rather drive to a show, walk around for half an hour, then drive for another hour, than I would to stand around for 3 hours talking about cars).
If you will be a car show guy, buff and shine, rather than drive, the 427 bb will way more impressive than saying it is a 351,392,408 stroker.

Of course if money is no object you can build an all aluminum block bb with alum heads etc and have the same weight, more hp and way more torque, for about $ 10,000 more. You can also spend big buck on a small block custom stroker and get fairly similar hp number, the torque will not be as great as a bb.

So, bluerooster, you need to decide what kind of cobra guy you are, how you will use it, how much you want to spend, etc.
Dana
Ps. This is the hardest part of the decision. Unless you do not care how much it costs, then it should be easy.

[BlueRooster]

Dana thats great info, and I have been mulling over all of your bullet points and this is what I come up with.
1. I dont see myself sitting at car show for hours at a clip. Maybe to cruise night or something to meet other Cobra owners but thats it.
2. I would like to take the car to Pocono or Lime Rock, both are 2 hours from me in NJ, but I dont want to race competitively.
3. Of the two extemes, I would rather have the car more toward the "show" end than the "Mad Max" end.

Are you saying that a BB is not reliable enough to take to the track, or just too expensive to beat on?

4. I think at the beginning of this I should have approx' 45k to spend, with the total not going over 50k...

[Roscoe]

Blue,
Not that the big block in unreliable it's the weight that affects the handling on a road race track. It is also more expensive to add performance parts or to replace entirely if you lunch it.

I've got about 38 into my A&C and am very pleased with the performance. My engine is a mild 351W and it gets plenty of power. Problem with some is that they get this ego trip to put in gobs of power into a car that weighs 2200 lbs and they wind up either rolling it into a ball or going through tires because they can't get traction.

Roscoe

[fordnut]

Blue.

You can buy a 408 or 427 sb and get 450hp for less than $5000.00 then spend $600.00 for a NOS system just to kick the big boys around a bit. you will still have good drivability and a little kick a$$ for those ( just need horsepower moments.) LOL

[aumoore]

I have a 1987 Hot Rod Automotive Series Shelby American guide and it has the original specs on all cobras:

Cobra 427(Street)
Engine: 428 CID Special Police Interceptor with engine modifications by Shelby American, compression ratio 10.0:1, 1-4V ford Carb(I think it is a holley built ford carb), HP 390@5200rpm; torque 475@3700rpm, mechanical lifters, milage 9-12mpg, premium fuel only.

Cobra 427(Some Street cars)
Engine: 427 CID 2-4V ford Carbs, HP 425advertised, mechanical lifters There was not as much tech info on this motor but they call it the NASCAR motor

Cobra 289(1964)
Engine: 289 CID HI-Performance Ford Fairlane V8, compression ratio 10.0:1, 1-4V ford Carb, HP 271@5800rpm; torque 269@4800rpm, mechanical lifters, premium fuel only.
Optional HP up to 370HP with Webbers


IMHO the big blocks are more for show. Yes they are fast and in most street applications faster than a small block. They create more heat that can make the car less enjoyable to actually drive. The FE motors are not the best in terms of reliability. The 429/460 is a more modern motor with more parts available for it. If you go the small block route I would stay away from strokers as that runs the cost up to the big block area and then you start stressing parts.

Remember a Cobra with a stock 225hp 5.0 will outrun almost any stock production car on the road. Cobras are about low weight and low center of gravity. Driving one is fun and will make you a simi-celebrity that people give thumbs up to unless you are Natalie Maines(in that case you do not need to drive an open car. I suggest a bullet proof Hummer with dark tinted windows)

[BlueRooster]

Im done ....here goes, if I order a new TKM, Im going to ERA and Im putting in a 351w. If I can find a finished car, its either ERA or Superformance, but it has to be under 45k...BB or SB. I have been posting a lot lately and I want to thank everyone for their input. It doesnt go unappreciated. Hopefully within the next year Ill be an owner and not a wisher.

Dane

[klayfish]

Blue,
Check out the motors for yourself. If your heart is dead set on a big block, go for it. For Sunday cruising, you will have no handling problems with them. They will be much faster in a straight line and you can say to everyone who asks that it is a big block.
On the flip side, they cost more. They weigh more, so if you plan to do any racing that involves turns, it will be a liability. They put out more heat, and require more heavy duty (meaning $$) all around. Stronger trans, rear, radiator...
I autox with a friend who has a SPF with a stroked 351W (396 ci). He has 500 hp, and the thing is a rocket. Roscoe's "mild" 351 sure didn't look so mild running around Pocono raceway last summer! Even my underpowered 302 ran well up to about 100 mph.
Start hanging around Cobras more, try getting some rides. There will be many events coming up. Including the Cobra Revolution a group of us are putting on in Valley Forge Park on June 7th. Come on down and poke your nose around. We'd love to have you. Registration forms will be out in a matter of days.

Steve

[aumoore]

Blue
Here is a link to Jerry Rowleys site. He has two Unique big block Cobras for sale. The Red one has a 428 and is in your price range. The Blue one is a beast with a stroked 427 putting out more than 500HP and it has a hard top too.


http://www.jerryscobras.net/

[REAL 1]

Aumores info is correct as to specs. I believe that the ratings where a little higher as to hp. 425hp for the 428PI and 475hp for the 427SO. Don't mean to nit pic.

All S/C's had 427SO's. Some single quads. Some dual quads.
Some street cars had 427SO's and many had 428PI's. Mostly dual quads.

If rebuilt properly an FE has good reliability. Especially when you balance and blue print in the rebuild and use quality parts.

Pro of the 427SO. Its the "brass ring" of power plants for the 427 Cobra. The Side Oiler is the "the engine". No if, ands or buts about it.

Con of the 427SO. Real 427SO blocks (not service block or marine) and quality blocks hard to come by. Cost is very high.

Pro of the 428PI. Less expensive and more available. Great torque curve for street use. Also, it is correct for the Cobra, more specifically the street spec Cobra.

Con of the 428PI. Its not a 427SO.

[aumoore]

Real I

Those are the HP figures printed in the Guide I have.

[dana]

Bluerooster,
The big block are not too expensive to beat on, unless you want to go 427so or vintage 428. The more modern 429/460/514 are way less expensive than the previous. Small block strokers cost more than standard big blocks.

There is a 2001 superformance for sale in connecticut. I think bob in ct is the guy. He has a 351 ( i think ) with all the standard spf goodies. He wants $46,000.

I would go to cruise nights and car show and see what you like. Try to bum rides in cobras. That's what i did. And ask a lot of questions. Cobras guys love to talk about their cars.
I went to ERA, FFR and SPF to look at their cars. I happened to be in all their areas for work so it was easy.
I would also go to the Carlisle shows to talk to the manufacturers there. Then you can compare them up close and personal.

I did what fordnut suggested. I put in a 392 with NOS just in case my large intestine ever got clogged up and I needed a cleanout.

[BlueRooster]

How many hours does NOS suck out of an engine everytime you flick that switch? For some reason it just doesnt seem like a good thing for an engine.

[mrmustang]

Working at a shop that sells several dozen NOS systems a month, I can tell you that as long as the motor is buuilt correctly, and the NOS system isd sized up and installed correctly, it will not harm the motor in any way. Now, if you run on the cheaper side of life, and you decide to buy one on the web and install it yourself, without seeking the proper guidance, than you can, and will have a pile of worthless parts in the long run...Right after you hit the NOS button at too low an RPM for your particular set up..........


Bill S.

Originally posted by BlueRooster


How many hours does NOS suck out of an engine everytime you flick that switch? For some reason it just doesnt seem like a good thing for an engine.