Anyone in Ontario, Can. have a D&D Cobra?

moxy · #1 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 03:50 PM

Hello, my Dad was talking with the owner of D&D Cobra. He was told the car would be registered as '65 in Quebec and then sold as used vehicle to Ontario. Anyone done this with success? What if we bought a roller and tried to register it in Ontario? I am very concerned on the registration in Ontario because it is a kit? This is a lot of money for us to shell out! I would like to know for sure that it can be done before we proceed!
Thanks!

cdnus · #2 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 06:59 PM

You'd be best to step back from that deal.

The government & insurance company's frown on fraudulently registered vehicles.
It is fairly easy to register a kit in Ont. that originates in Canada. Insurance is another thing, the consensus is facility insurance if you want to log a lot of miles. There does not appear to be anything else at the moment, although I have a application in with a company that claims they can provide coverage with "Hagerty" which is supposed to be available in Ont. now.

JMO. Don't bet the farm on it---do your own research & double check everything.

Craig

moxy · #3 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 03:43 AM

Thanks for the info. I am very leary on this whole project as I've heard of nothing but problems with kit car registration in Ont. I never even thought of insurance! Double whammy! It's not looking good for a cobra project! This is most unfortunate.

SunDude · #4 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 05:10 AM

I don't think there is anything particularly onerous about kit car registration in Ontario. The big things are to have all the paperwork to establish you as the legal owner of the car and its major components, and to have the car mechanically certified to meet provincial safety requirements.

I think the big issue some home builders face is they find out that home-built kit cars are virtually uninsurable here except through Facility Association. And because Facility is so expensive, some guys try to register their kit Cobras as "1965 Cobras" rather than as kit cars, so they can qualify for better insurance coverage. But this is a bad idea IMO, 'cuz when your insurer finds out you lied about your car, you're screwed.

cdnus · #5 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 07:37 AM

What SUNDUDE said X2

It's not that difficult--just keep it honest & well documented. the facility is not too bad if you remove the road coverage for the winter as I do. You will need a appraisal & safety inspection certificate before they will accept you.

Any of the specialty insurance co. I have spoken with (my daughter in-law works for one of the biggest) will not cover new kit vars & will only take you when it is legitimately 15 years old. Then they all limit your mileage & restrict your usage, that is why I find facility best for me---no restrictions, I can use it as a daily driver if I wish to.

The first drive in your Cobra will wipe any difficulty's encountered out of your mind.

Craig

ddcobra · #6 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 10:43 AM

i have 2 custumer in ont. and no problem for inspection or assurance
Don,

zzmac · #7 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 12:27 PM

You might want to check with Transport Canada. They advised me that it's not allowed to transfer a kit car from Quebec into Ontario. Supposedly because it would cross provincial borders it falls under TC domain. Due your due diligence.

SunDude · #8 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzmac

You might want to check with Transport Canada. They advised me that it's not allowed to transfer a kit car from Quebec into Ontario. Supposedly because it would cross provincial borders it falls under TC domain. Due your due diligence.

From what I've researched on this, a manufacturer cannot sell a new motor vehicle that doesn't meet federal safety standards across provincial boundaries -- and this is true for both regular production cars and kit cars. But there's nothing to prevent a used kit car from being sold or transferred across provincial boundaries. The new owner will just have to certify that the car meets provincial standards in order to register it for the road.

moxy · #9 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 03:26 PM

Don, these two customers of yours in Ontario. Are they on this site at all? I would like to talk with them in reguards to their experience with registration. I am getting very mixed signals with this. This is not the first time I've heard transport Canada say no transfer of registration outside of a province. I need definite answers to these questions before my father and I start a project! Very nice work by the way! I love the quality and craftsmanship of your work!

zzmac · #10 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 08:39 PM

It's skirting the law if it's registered and then sold as used even though it's new. And it's not a 1965 either.

If you find the right office anything can get "registered". When you're spending a lot of money though you're best off doing your homework and not relying on everything you hear.

Venamm · #11 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 10:55 PM

Moxy,
Contact me. I can help you with what is needed (registration and insurance) Better to go with Kit badge not 65.

As for insurance you have 2 options. Lant (silver wheels) requires the car to be at least 15 years registered and on the road.

Zehr insurance doesn't care the age, all they care is that it wasn't built by you. They require a proof of built by DD.

Venamm · #12 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddcobra

i have 2 custumer in ont. and no problem for inspection or assurance
Don,

...and Don,...by the way that's illegal.
Be very careful what you advise and promote. It's not a provincial issue. Its a national issue. The Ministry of Trans is cracking down on false registrations and builders (You do not want to be part of that group). You are getting dream owners into heat. If you want long term clientele, who won't be chasing you latter with a bat, then start registering your cars as "KITS". The 65 , 66 badge is not worth it, and everyone knows it's not a 65 66. The ego ownership on paper won't get you any benefits. so better to be honest. That's my advise.

To add to this, they (MTO) have assembled a task force to seek and destroy. MTO are randomly cracking down and they will call in everyone eventually and then ask you to prove why your car is a 65. Good luck. They already have a list of cars they have pulled off the road. Contact head of task force at MTO. Her name is Pandora.

I know this because I sit on the board of advisers to MTO for and from Cobra Club Canada.
Change it up Don, we want you around for more great cars (I have seen your work it's nice)

TINNMANN · #13 (**permalink**) 04-02-2010, 04:58 AM

I am one of the D&D owners in Ontario. I am titled as a 2009 the year that it went on the road. I would not even try to title it as anything else as accordingly to the MTO manual it " is a fraud to title it any year other than the year it was completed" Don is not up on the Ontario rules and I would strongly suggest that everything you do be totally above board!!!! My worry would be that if you had a claim it might be denied because of false info. I had no trouble whatsoever getting it titled as a 2009 and it took some searching to get insurance but all is well. Great car and well made 350 miles so far this year and loving it!!
Cheers Greg

Venamm · #14 (**permalink**) 04-02-2010, 08:14 AM

Greg, It's not an "Ontario rule" MTO is national, including Quebec.

moxy · #15 (**permalink**) 04-02-2010, 05:00 PM

Venamm, how can I talk with you? Maybe my father or myself could call you? Thanks!

Venamm · #16 (**permalink**) 04-02-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxy

Venamm, how can I talk with you? Maybe my father or myself could call you? Thanks!

Private message me through this club site (click on my name)

ddcobra · #17 (**permalink**) 04-03-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxy

Venamm, how can I talk with you? Maybe my father or myself could call you? Thanks!

call me if you want Tinmann got is one the road with no problem, so i can help you guys to have your cobra legal in ontario

Thanks Don,

Venamm · #18 (**permalink**) 04-03-2010, 10:35 PM

Why isn't anyone listening to me? It isn't an Ontario matter.....it is national. I don't care if you car is from BC,...you can't transfer cars from province to province now. Please understand (DON) you should sell them as kits not 65,. you will find your self in a heap eventually.

TINNMANN · #19 (**permalink**) 04-04-2010, 04:31 AM

I thought MTO was Ministry of Transport Ontario and Transport Canada was federal. If you buy a D&D do not title it any year other than the year built. Work with DON as to the state of assembly you want the kit to arrive but it must be a KIT!!! Venamm when did the laws change as to trans. ownership to a different province? I know of a car that went from Ontario to Alberta recently with no problem.
Cheers Greg

SunDude · #20 (**permalink**) 04-04-2010, 07:47 AM

Transport Canada is a federal government department and is responsible for setting and enforcing national road safety standards for all new motor vehicles. Therefore, its regulations apply as much to international trade as interprovincial trade. And this is why manufacturers such as D&D Cobra cannot sell a Cobra replica which doesn't meet safety and emissions standards from Quebec to a customer in another province.

But from what I have researched, these regulations do not apply to the sale of used vehicles from one province to another. In these cases, the new owner must simply prove to the provincial transportation ministry that the used car meets provincial safety standards (i.e., a mechanical "safety check").

Venamm, can you point me to the regulation or law which you say prohibits interprovincial sale of used/resale kit cars? Maybe I've overlooked something, and would like to be as informed as possible since one day I may resell my SPF (not likely, but you never know...).