48 IDA Certification for California ?

[jhirasak]

I am planning to move to California and am wondering how to get my 48 IDA individual runner setup to be accepted by the CARB. I also have the original 715 cfm Holly and Shelby hi riser manifold if all else fails. Suggestions???

[RodKnock]

What kind of car(s) do you have? If you own a 1975 or older vehicle, then it's smog exempt. If it's a Cobra (Specially Constructed), then you'll have to go through the SB100/SPCNS process.

[jhirasak]

It is a 1966 Mustang, Shelby GT 350 replica. Even though it is smog exempt, I understand that it has to have a closed crankcase ventilation system according to CARB even through the SB100/SPCNS process. Because the 4 Weber system is an individual runner system, I do not have a manifold vacuum source for the closed crankcase ventilation. I was wondering what other owners having a 4 Weber system did to meet this requirement.

[xlr8or]

There will be no smog inspection required for a 66 Mustang. Just show proof of insurance, register it and get new plates.

[jhirasak]

Thanks for the inputs. I guess that I was mistaken about the California CARB requirements.

[legenmetals]

Any input on what will be required for a CSX 8000 car with mso stating 1962 body style and having a 1962 260 c.i. with webers? I do not have a pcv system.

I know Calif. cars had a pcv in 1962.

Thanks for any help.
Mark

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by legenmetals

Any input on what will be required for a CSX 8000 car with mso stating 1962 body style and having a 1962 260 c.i. with webers? I do not have a pcv system.

I know Calif. cars had a pcv in 1962.

Thanks for any help.
Mark

You will have to go through the SB100 process and have a PCV unless the inspector at BAR has a migraine that day. :-)

Install a 4-bbl carb and manifold, go through the SB100/SPCNS process and then change back to Webers afterwards. You will fail the "BAR exam" without a PCV, no matter if you have 1962 engine, brakes, transmission, rear end, windshield, etc. It's still a SPCNS vehicle, not a vehicle manufactured in 1962.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by xlr8or

There will be no smog inspection required for a 66 Mustang. Just show proof of insurance, register it and get new plates.

What I said and what Scott said. Smog exempt.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by legenmetals

I know Calif. cars had a pcv in 1962.
Thanks for any help.
Mark

BTW, I believe that the PCV requirement went into effect in CA on cars sold in 1963. But check that.

[legenmetals]

Positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) - During World War II, however, a different type of crankcase ventilation had to be invented to allow tank engines to operate during deep fording operations, where the normal draft tube ventilator would have allowed water to enter the crankcase and destroy the engine.[3] The PCV system and its control valve were invented to meet this need, but no need for it on automobiles was recognised.

In 1952, Professor A. J. Haagen-Smit, of the California Institute of Technology at Pasadena, postulated that unburned hydrocarbons were a primary constituent of smog, and that gasoline powered automobiles were a major source of those hydrocarbons. After some investigation by the GM Research Laboratory (led by Dr. Lloyd L. Withrow), it was discovered in 1958 that the road draft tube was a major source, about half, of the hydrocarbons coming from the automobile. GM's Cadillac Division, which had built many tanks during WWII, recognized that installation of PCV on vehicles could bring the first major reduction in automotive hydrocarbon emissions. After confirming the PCV valves' effectiveness at hydrocarbon reduction, GM offered the PCV solution to the entire U.S. automobile industry, royalty free, through its trade association, the Automobile Manufacturers Association (AMA).[citation needed] The PCV system thus became the first real vehicle emissions control device.

Positive crankcase ventilation was first installed on a widespread basis by law on all new 1961-model cars first sold in California. The following year, New York required it. By 1964, most new cars sold in the U.S. were so equipped by voluntary industry action so as not to have to make multiple state-specific versions of vehicles. PCV quickly became standard equipment on all vehicles worldwide because of its benefits not only in emissions reduction but also in engine internal cleanliness and oil lifespan.[1][4]

In 1967, several years after its introduction into production, the PCV system became the subject of a U.S. federal grand jury investigation, when it was alleged by some industry critics that the AMA was conspiring to keep several such smog reduction devices on the shelf to delay further smog control. After eighteen months of investigation by U.S. Attorney Samuel Flatow, the grand jury returned a "no-bill" decision, clearing the AMA, but resulting in a "Consent Decree" that all U.S. automobile companies agreed not to work jointly on smog control activities for a period of ten years.[citation needed]

In the decades since, legislation and regulation of vehicular emissions has tightened substantially, and the toxic emissions of cars and light trucks have decreased substantially. Today's petrol engines continue to use PCV systems.

I hate to change the intake!

[jhv48]

As long as BOTH your pcv valve AND the opposite valve cover breather dump into an air cleaner, you will pass inspection for your sb100 exemption. All else being equal.

[Tom Howland]

Originally Posted by jhv48

As long as BOTH your pcv valve AND the opposite valve cover breather dump into an air cleaner, you will pass inspection for your sb100 exemption. All else being equal.

I tried that in 1/11 SB100 inspection and did not pass. Had to drill and tap the intake manifold and run the PCV valve to that point. Bar would not allow anything run to the air filter.

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by Tom Howland

I tried that in 1/11 SB100 inspection and did not pass. Had to drill and tap the intake manifold and run the PCV valve to that point. Bar would not allow anything run to the air filter.

Wow! What will they do next? Mine passed with the pcv feeding into the carb base and the breather feeding into the air cleaner base. I guess its up to the interpretation of the Individual bar examiner.

[legenmetals]

I think what JHV48 was referring to is what they call a closed loop system. That is a pcv valve that vents the internal engine vapors to the base of the carb to burn any vapors off. Cars in the mid to late 60's had a breather on the opposite valve cover that did not have the vent holes underneath the breather cap but a sealed cap except for a hose that attached to the cap that vented in to the air breather to suck any vapors into the carb and not the atmosphere.

[bingo2]

Here's an illustration of a closed PCV system; it is identical to that provided to me by the BAR referee.

[qsl]

anyone find a solution for this? I have a ported intake for the pcv valve to hook up, but I still failed. They said it needs to be closed. So i need to remove the vent on the other valve cover and run a hose somewhere to the carbs? Can you just plug off that vent?

[Tom Howland]

Get a non vented cap.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by qsl

anyone find a solution for this? I have a ported intake for the pcv valve to hook up, but I still failed. They said it needs to be closed. So i need to remove the vent on the other valve cover and run a hose somewhere to the carbs? Can you just plug off that vent?

You cannot plug off the vent.

Crankcase pressure will skyrocket positive or negative on acceleration or deceleration respectively.

Run the largest i/d hose you can fit to the closest carb aircleaner base.

Ideally, one hose per aircleaner:

-10 to junction block to 4 x -6 to carb air cleaner bases.

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

You cannot plug off the vent.

Crankcase pressure will skyrocket positive or negative on acceleration or deceleration respectively.

Run the largest i/d hose you can fit to the closest carb aircleaner base.

Ideally, one hose per aircleaner:

-10 to junction block to 4 x -6 to carb air cleaner bases.

Sorry, but I cannot envision this on a Weber setup.
Those air cleaners don't have 'bases'.

Any other ideas?

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by dallas_

Sorry, but I cannot envision this on a Weber setup.
Those air cleaners don't have 'bases'.

Any other ideas?

You gotta go over to the FFR site and pose the question on their So. Cal. forum. Somebody over there has had to get webers through the sb100 process.

If all else fails, just put on a 4 barrel and get it through the BAR and then switch to Webbers.