to weber or not to weber...that is the question

[scode]

hey all, new to this forum but it seems very good. my question is this...
i am building a small block 302 and am thinking of putting webers on it. to be honest i do not know a lot about webers, i have had a few 911's w/them. i am building a streetable engine. i have seen the 44idf's and the 48 ida's and heard the 44's are more streetable and less hassle. is that true? what is the reccomended linkage and why? and what fuel system requirements (pump,filters etc) should i run? as far as manifolds, cobra style or the version with thermostat housing. again this motor will be for street and open track.
are webers the way to go? i love the look that is for sure.
and last question, where is best place with best prices to get them? anyone out there selling some?
thanks
-hawk

[bobcowan]

Webers look great on almost any car. When you see them on a Cobra, they make you drool.

BUT... if you don't know how to tune them, it can be a nightmare. It's expensive, too. You need 8 set of jets, 8 choke tube, 8 emuslion tubes..... You get the idea.

OTOH, there are a few really good 8 stack EFI systems available for about the same money. Much easier and a whole lot cheaper to tune. Self adjusting for for temperature and altitude. Closed loop operation. Work well with radical cams. Look spectacular.

Newer computers like Redline and BigStuff3 are self tuning. No need for dyno time.

This is my Momar EFI system.

[dlampe]

Actually you can get the Webers for $2999 and most fuel injection is over $7000. I love the Webers. They are not that hard to tune. It just takes patience. Once you have them set, you don't need to mess with them. Don't take advice about Webers from people who have never had them. That is the only way to separate the fact from the fiction.

[ENTDOC]

actually IDF's can be had for much less than that. Filtration is the biggest issue with webers, the tuning part is the most fun I had with my cobra.

[Jac Mac]

Just think of it as the two 'P's

Pretty= Webers.
Performance = Injection or 4bbl's

[bobcowan]

>> Actually you can get the Webers for $2999 and most fuel injection is over $7000. <<

Tru, and not true. A basic weber set up runs about $3K. But a basic EFI stack system runs about $4400. www.verycoolparts.com More expensive? Yes, it is. Is it worth it? Yeah, to me it is.

You can also incorporate ignition control with a crank trigger. Or even a distributerless system for a bit more money. All depends on what you're after. Imagine running your hot rod with sequential EFI and distibuterless power pack ignition. That's high tech.

The computer also includes features that a lot of drivers want: Data logging, rev limiters, rpm switches for things like shift lights and NoS control, fan control, etc. You get a lot of performance for $4400.
On a dyno, EFI can be completely tuned in about an hour or two. All without ever leaving the seat of the car. Nothing to change, no parts to buy, no fuel to spill. Make a run, tap a few keys, make a run. Repeat as needed. Pretty simple. You save big bux on tuning. With the newer wide band systems, if you change something like exhaust, air cleaners, camshaft, you don't need to retune. It will do it on it's own.

Closed loop EFI constantly monitors the system and adjusts as needed. I live at 6,400' ASL, and that's what my car is tuned for. I traveled to Ohio this year, from CO. That's a huge change in altitude. But it wasn't a problem, the computer made the adjustments. Same thing when we raced in Hastings a few months ago. Car ran better without any tuning. I often drive over mountain passes >11,00' ASL. No problem, car runs fine. Imagine getting a perfect 14.7:1 ratio on a steady cruise no matter what the conditions are. But then getting a power mad 12.5:1 under full throttle. Every time, no matter what.

I love the look of webers. I think nothing looks better under the hood of a Cobra. Nothing has the Wow facter like webers do. But I want to drive my car in a variety of situations. I don't know how to tune webers, and don't know anyone around here that does. For me, EFI is the logical choice. An 8 stack system is a nice comprimise.

[ENTDOC]

I really have to disagree on that Jac, at least as it compares to 4bbl. My 427so became a different car after I got the webers tuned. Compared to my 750 Demon and edelbrock Victor manifold the car was remarkably quicker with significantly better throttle response. I do realize top end might suffer but I could not tell in my day to day driving. I would change that to

-more work
-more money
-more fun

[Kzof]

Originally Posted by ENTDOC

actually IDF's can be had for much less than that. Filtration is the biggest issue with webers, the tuning part is the most fun I had with my cobra.

Very good attitude.

[ENTDOC]

weber carbs direct--44 IDF for 319 each ,plus manifold-500; add fuel lines-200, runs about 1900 bucks. A good carb is 450-500, manifold about 400, lines 100 so about 1100. Stack EFI-4400-6000


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/44-ID...spagenameZWDVW

[Full Throttle Al]

There is nothing like a set of Webers and here is a nice starter set for your small block:



Alan Sorkey
CSX4083

[scode]

wow, thank you all for the tips. i was not trying to get the efi vs. weber thing going. just want some good true advice on the webers. i love their look, know that they perform like no other but just want to know if it is worth it especially to someone who does not have much experience with them. i do have a lot of car experience from porsches to land rovers to volvos and of course mustangs, just have never tuned webers before. (always took my 911's in for that).
so are the webersdirect a good system? the 44idf's?
thermostat housing manifold or cobra style?
now what other mods do i need? i know i need to re-calibrate the dist right?
what fuel pressure should i run at? do i need a return line?
what should i do about vacuum lines?
any more advice and help would be great, again thanks.
-hawk

[scode]

full throttle al that is a sweet system but i dare ask...how much?

[Full Throttle Al]

Reduced from current cost new today of $10,000 to $7,500. System is new, complete, polished and chromed.

['65 Cobra]

it's webercarbsdirect.com $1995.00

[G.R.]

Originally Posted by scode

so are the webersdirect a good system? the 44idf's?
thermostat housing manifold or cobra style?
now what other mods do i need? i know i need to re-calibrate the dist right?
what fuel pressure should i run at? do i need a return line?
what should i do about vacuum lines?
any more advice and help would be great, again thanks.
-hawk

Things to keep in mind:
do not go nuts on a lumpy cam--not that Webers can't be tuned to one but it really isn't necessary and you will avoid tuning headaches.

48 IDA's like about 3-3.5lbs of fuel pressure. a pressure regulator is a must. You can use either a mechanical or electric fuel pump

A return line is not needed

Nor are vacumm lines needed

Which choice of manifold Thermostat or Cobra is up to you. The Cobra is period correct. Other than Cobraphiles most folks won't notice the difference.

44 IDF's are easier to tune initially and it is said a more streetable setup, the 48's are a race carb but once tuned correctly are oh so sweet---getting them to that point just requires patientence and perserverance

[tfalk]

After just putting a set of 48IDF's on my 331, a couple of other bits of info...

First, plan on running a mechanical advance dizzy. The only way to run a vacuum advance
dizzy is with a lot of elaborate plumbing under the manifold. Also, forget power brakes
for the same reason...

The 48IDF setups I've seen show them with a small bracket to mount the bellcrank outboard
of the carbs. Unfortunately, NOBODY MAKES THE DAMN THING! You pretty much have
to have a bracket custom made to mount the bellcrank - cost me $100 but he saved the
dimensions in case someone wants another one. Also, whomever designed the manifold should
have actually tried it on a real motor... as is, you can't go to WOT because the accelerator pumps
will hit your valve covers. a BFH took care of that problem, but talk about a piss-poor design.

Tuning - I got them close but it still wasn't quite right. My friend came over, he's had IDA's on
his 427 GT-500 for 20 years... in 10 minutes, he had the car idling perfectly. I've only driven the
car once at an auto-x but the throttle response was unbelievable...

Now I have a new problem... Kumho 710 315's on the back ain't big enough

[JCoop]

I was apprehensive at first, but Webers: really the only way to go. Setting up the manifold was a pain; and so was initial tuning, but once you get there, even 90% there, Mama Mia!

[mtpockets]

Here are a couple of pics of my build in progress. I bought at Keith Craft 408w. The motor made 511 hp and 550 torque. Should be ready for test and tune in the next 7-10 days. I can post how the Webers are jetted if needed.

[thorconstr]

You're not going to find a stack price like this too often! TWM Group purchase!
www.thormotorsports1.com

[zimmy]

I can post how the Webers are jetted if needed.

Yes - please.