New injection installed Looks just like the Webers!

[01yelrt]

Erik at performance engineering has just sent me some pix of the new injection on my 427W. The look is nearly extactly like the webers I had previously. Still waiting on the Dyno but should be an improvement. The system is from Dynatek and has been recently featured in the Fast Fords magazine. The dyno numbers in that article were very impressive. I'll keep you posted after the Dyno and road test is completed!

[68gt500]

If you want to go FI - then go FI - if you want to go Webers - go Webers..

For me I don´t understand why you would go thru the effort of disguising the FI - nothing to be ashamed of ...

Both systems work well - with proper tune.

[James Baldwin]

Looks good

[ENTDOC]

I agree. Ford EFI systems are some of the ugliest set ups around and I would not have one on a cobra or coupe. Now the stacks or carb look set ups make a lot of sense to me. Expensive , yes. a lot of trouble, probably, but worth the effort.

[Gatorac]

That is the best FI set up I 've seen. It really does look like Webers.

Get rid of the blue fittings though. They don't look period correct.

[ENTDOC]

agree with that Jim. take Easy Off oven cleaner to them and they will be nice and dull silver

[Hexnut72]

I think it looks great. How does it run in the real world? The closed loop FI systems kind of scare me.

[dlampe]

They have an open loop system for higher hp cars. I think that is the right terminology, with a return line, right? Stay tuned, there might be more of thier stuff showing up soon!

[Excaliber]

I thought all fuel injection was an open loop design to maintain a constant fuel pressure at the injection nozels. Fuel pressure above a certain setpoint is returned to the tank.

[csx4910]

While it might not look as period correct as the weber set up, I am having one of Roush's new 8 stack fuel injected motors put in my car. I just saw the engine today for the first time in the car and it looks pretty cool. Again, not period correct but to me combines the best of both worlds!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by 01yelrt

The system is from Dynatek and has been recently featured in the Fast Fords magazine.

The system looks good, but I think it's good for up to 450HP.

[Excaliber]

What? A mere 450 hp? Doesn't everybody here run at least 5 to 600 hundred?

[COBRANIP]

"Open loop" is where the electronic parameters are pre defined and do not change while the engine is running. "Closed loop" incorporates an O-2 sensor and continuously monitors the air/fuel ratio (looking at the exhaust gasses) and makes adjustments "on the fly" according to what the O-2 sensor tells the "computer" the engine needs. Both systems have a return fuel line (to the gas tank) so fuel pressure can be regulated. But that's just a guess...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!

[dlampe]

Thanks for the clarification on the open loop terminology. What determines how much HP a system can handle? Is it the injector size? Fuel pressure? Throttle body diameter?

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by COBRANIP

"Open loop" is where the electronic parameters are pre defined and do not change while the engine is running. "Closed loop" incorporates an O-2 sensor and continuously monitors the air/fuel ratio (looking at the exhaust gasses) and makes adjustments "on the fly" according to what the O-2 sensor tells the "computer" the engine needs. Both systems have a return fuel line (to the gas tank) so fuel pressure can be regulated. But that's just a guess...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!

A lot of your modern systems run in mixed mode. open loop kicks in under hard acceleration. Closed loop mode for cruising and economy. There are preset fuel maps in the ECU and the O2 sensor readings tweek these over time. It's called Long Term Fuel Trim. There is only a certain ammount of adjustment the LTFT has over the Map.

The ECU in my car is designed to run with a MAF sensor for extra sensitivity but I've deleted it and run in speed density mode. This is where it uses throttle position, RPM, manifold pressure, intake air temp, knock sensors and a speed density fuel and ignition map in the ECU. The O2 sensors tweek the map over time as you drive it and it tunes itself. The better the map is set in the first place the less adjustment the O2 sensors add.

Cheers

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by dlampe

Thanks for the clarification on the open loop terminology. What determines how much HP a system can handle? Is it the injector size? Fuel pressure? Throttle body diameter?

Injectors are matched to specific fuel pressure. It can be varied but they have a specific pressure range they work at their best. Injectors need to be sized to support the amout of power the rest of your motor will make they will flow X ammount of fuel at a particular duty cycle. If the ECU is having to hold the injectors open 100% at full power then you probably need bigger injectors.

FI systems seem to be able to handle a lot more airflow than an equivalent carb setup. I'm running a 1000CFM throttle body and it runs great but a 1000CFM carb would be a pig. FI will probably make similar top end power to a properly setup carb motor. Where the gain is is in drivability and low end mid range power. With the injector placed right at the port in the head the fuel doesn't have a chance to fall out of suspension at low gas velocities i.e when you open the buttterflies on a big carb at low RPM. The carb uses a big shot of juice from the accelerator pump squirters to fix a mixture that's suddenly become lean because all the fuel is now sitting in the bottom of the manifold.

Cheers

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

.FI systems seem to be able to handle a lot more airflow than an equivalent carb setup. I'm running a 1000CFM throttle body and it runs great but a 1000CFM carb would be a pig. FI will probably make similar top end power to a properly setup carb motor. Where the gain is is in drivability and low end mid range power. With the injector placed right at the port in the head the fuel doesn't have a chance to fall out of suspension at low gas velocities i.e when you open the buttterflies on a big carb at low RPM. The carb uses a big shot of juice from the accelerator pump squirters to fix a mixture that's suddenly become lean because all the fuel is now sitting in the bottom of the manifold.

given the same venturi diameter, yes the fi system will flow more air (maybe 30% more) because it doesn't have a booster stuck in the middle of the venturi to restrict airflow. All you need to do is get a bigger diameter venturi in the carb to "match" cross sectional area, then I would think flow would be the same.

I have read several comparisons of Fi versus carb, and the one that sticks out in my mind is a boat comparison (same boat), mercruiser 502 HO and 502 magnum, I think, anyways, one was a carbed engine, the other FI, otherwise the heads, cam, compression, were the same. Just different intakes. The carbed version was slightly quicker/faster. The explanation I read later was that there is an optimal size of fuel droplets, to make the most power. You don't want the fuel droplets too small, or the fuel to vaporize, as the vaporized fuel then takes the place of air (oxygen) thus diminishing power potential. An FI system can't supply the fuel in large enough droplets, and therefore, a properly carbed engine will make more top end power.

The reason you need an accelerator pump on a carbed engine is not because the fuel sits on the bottom of the intake, but because gasoline has a larger inertia than air, and thus takes slightly longer to increase flow when you open up the butterflies, and therefore, you need to supplement the fuel supply with a squirt to prevent a momentary lean condition/hesitation.

[COBRANIP]

If you'r interested in the Dynatek (Webber look) F.I. setup get the Spring 2008 Engine Masters (on sale now) magazine (page 59) for a 7 page review/compare/dyno test (vs. 4 barrel single-plane). F.I. made more average HP/torque with carb making more top end HP the last 400 rpm. They also said subsequent development has given the F.I. another 25 cfm (per runner) so maybe the top end is now better.

Thanks Aussie Mike for the clarification.....I was trying to "dumb it down" so I could understand what I was saying!

[01yelrt]

I am really pretty slow when it comes to FI systems. I really have been impressed with the numbers the dynatek has been able to produce in the dyno article that is out there now. It seemed to be comparable to a 4bbl which has kinda been the gold standard of HP. I hope that my cam which is setup for a weber system is up to the challenge of the new FI system. I agree that the blue fittings should go to keep in the period correct theme of the car. Thanks for the feedback on the new mods. I'll keep you posted as soon as I get the dyno results. I'm waiting on some new sidepipes then it can be put to the test!

[ENTDOC]

what is the cost of that system?