Cobra Newbie

[jeffko]

Hey Guys, I was bitten by a Cobra several years ago, but I am finally buying a FFR at the end of this summer. I would very much appreciate any tips and suggestions you guys may have. I definitely want IRS and would like any tips on using FFR or other. Since I want to rebuild the 302 and use a Tremec TKO trans with some kind of IRS, I am wondering if it is really worth buying a donor for the remaining parts. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Oh also, what are the Illinois DMV rules on kit cars? I live in Gurnee by the way. Anybody close?

Thanks Again....

[RichMusson]

Welcome...Wecome...Wecome

Being bitten by a Cobra is a little like being bitten by a vampire... It gives you eternial life & youth. Or at least that is my story and I am sticking to it.

The decision to use a donor or not is really a very personal decision. I had a donor and ended up using very few of the parts. If the donor had not been so cheap I would have been very disappointed in myself. It does become a matter of how much money and how much time you are willing to spend.
The closer you stay to a one donor, FFR 'stock' build the sooner you will be done and the sooner you will be driving. An even faster way may be to buy a 'pallet donor'. That is, the scrap yard will do the dissembly and deliver all the parts you need to do the build.

Now, on the other hand, one of the side effects of being bitten by a Cobra is seeing all the wonderful things other builders have done to their cars and wanting the same for yourself. I must warn you, the sky is the limit, this can become very expensive and take a very long time to complete your build. Like I say, it is a personal decision.

I believe if I had it to do over again I would have stayed closed to a 'stock build' and used the winter down time to upgrade and improve the car. Or least, that is what I say now --- in truth I would done even more non-donor stuff. The more cars you see, the more websites you visit, the more ideas you get for your own build.

Good Luck! and again welcome to the madness.

Rich

[Ozona]

Stay away from me and you'll be ok. =)

I haven't had enough brains to leave anything alone.

[red]

Hi
Since you haven't bought a kit yet, you have a great opportunity to find out what kit will fit your needs (and size). By size, there are kit manufacturers out there that make original size Cobras and others that make larger kits for bigger individuals for more comfort. By needs, we mean are you going to race or are you going to cruise? Do you want to run your car on pump gas, and attend local and distant car shows, or do you want to turn 10s at the track? Do you want to build an "original" Cobra or do you want to add some comforts, and some custom touch's? If you are not a member of the Windy City Cobra Club, it would be great to have you join. The meetings are fun,there are events planned, and the members can tell some great war stories, not to mention the braintrust of info on building and choosing a kit and viewing or taking a ride in a couple. As for using a doner, I think you will be more satisfied buying new parts, but the cost can get out of hand real quick. As far as the Sec. of State, keep all receipts for major parts (engine ,trans,kit, rear end,etc.) make sure you have the certificate of origin from the manufacturer and bring your checkbook. Go to a currency exchange, they seem to be less of a hassle and they will do the paperwork. Most of all, enjoy yourself.
Marty

[jeffko]

When you consider space for the donor car, disassembly, refurbishing costs I wonder if a donor is worth it. I have budgeted 25k to complete the build, which seems realistic after preliminary pricing. I figure a 347 stroker making 400hp should cost $4500 then add the kit and a TKO trans and we are 18k with only 7k left. Fortunately I have a friend that owns a body shop but even then the paint job will be $1500. Brakes and suspension are still a bit of an unknown and I want to stay as close to the Shelby AC Cobra as possible.

As far as intent of the car....well in a single word...EXCITEMENT! Yeah Baby! This will also be an awesome time for my 15 year old son and my 7 year old will get a kick out of it also. I had a '62' Impala and a '69' Cuda when I was a teenager and I want these guys to get a taste of what it was like. If the car turns out really nice it would be nice to attend some shows.

Please keep the tips coming, even you Ozona. Thanks for the invite Red, I would like that.

Thanks Again,
Jeff

[casaleenie]

Just buy the donor car disassembled and on a pallet....
Probably cheaper in the long run... Defintely a space saver...


By this time next year, FFR will probably be building frames to accommodate Chevy engines and trans.. I think frames are built to install the 4.6 liter engines.
Talk to FFR and see what is in their future planning.. You've got all summer to plan and collect parts...

[Ron61]

On the other hand when you get everything about ready for driving you could have Casaleenie come and disassemble it all for you so you can use the driving weather to put it back together again.

But I have to agree that if you can get the donor parts already disassembled and on a pallet you will most likely be ahead. For one thing you don't have to dispose of left over stuff and the parts should be already cleaned and checked.


Ron

[EMK]

Jeffco-
Regarding your budget of $25K. First double it, than add a few grand for "breathing" room. That should get you pretty close to actual dollars.

[jeffko]

EMK...
I do not know what it takes to build a B$B but I do have a very good handle on what it takes to build a 302/FFR. I have seen several websites where guys have accounted for most everything and been a low as $19,000. There are several turn-key companies that offer a complete car and priced for much less than $50,000 plus. A few of their links are listed below.


http://www.427cobras.com/options.html

http://www.erareplicas.com/427/427sc.htm

http://www.uniquemotorcars.com/Price_sheet6_2004.html

[trularin]

Jeffko

EMK is telling you it is going to cost more than $25k, believe me, it is going to cost more than $25k.

It may not be as much as $50k, but more than $25k. I think EMK is correct or at least close.

Just remember, you get what you pay for.

Just a thought

[RichMusson]

Hey Guys,

Just a word of caution. Sometimes wives read these things!! So yea, less than $25K - that's my story and I am sticking to it.

Rich

[Woodz428]

Here's a link to the DMV's registration process.

http://www.sos.state.il.us/departmen...ustom_rod.html

[jeffko]

Well Guys,

I certainly wanted to hear the good, bad and ugly, but I still do not understand how you can take a $12k kit that has everything except the paint, drivetrain and a few suspension parts and make it $50k. I am sure you guys are shaking your heads thinking "amateur" and in some regards I admit you must be right. We will see when it is done. Keep the tips coming because I very much appreciate them and learning from others.

Thanks to Marty "Red" for having my son and I over for a couple of hours Saturday! Nice Cobra and we talked about it most of the rest of the day.

Jeff

[RichMusson]

Jeff,
Don't misunderstand the replies. Sure, you can do a kit for under $25k - If you are able to do most all the work yourself and you keep to a very stock build.
If you start modifying and improving - then it can get to be very expensive very quickly. For example:
1. Yea most of the parts can come from the donor - some should be replaced no matter what like - brakes, water hoses, radiator, battery and so on. Depending on where you draw the line - I don't know $500 to $1,000 maybe more?
2. What about tires and wheels. Unless you stick with the Mustang wheels - figure around $2,500 for a decent set of replica wheels and new tires.
3. Your orginal post talked about rebuilding the motor. First decided if you are going EFI or carbuetor. Then depending on what you mean by 'rebuild' it's probably anywhere between what - $1,000 to like $10,000.
4. You want to upgrade the transmission and rear end. So assume used without a rebuild required. Still needs a new clutch pressure plate etc ? How much total -- again at least $1,000 to $2,000
5. The paint job - can become very expensive. Yea you can do all the prepwork yourself and do a MAACO paint job fairly inexpensively. If you get a top quality painter it could easily be $4,000 to $5,000 unless you do most of the prep work yourself.
6. This is all before you start purchasing upgrades - everything from suspension and handling to heaters and window wipers to soft tops and hard tops. Believe me, the UPS man will know where you live - he'll stop by often and every little thing you do will cost a few hundred dollars.

Jeff, again don't get discouraged. Yes, you can do a nice car- that is very close to 'stock' that is faster than most anything you will encounter on the street. A car that certianly can get the driver into trouble very quickly and capable of scaring the snot out of anyone in the passenger seat. And yes, you can do this on a budget.
It's just that most of us started on a budget and well let's just say we are not good accountants. ( And I happen to be a CPA - Oh well!) For me the formula of $ 25k times two plus 10% is closer to the reality.
Rich

[Blas]

Jeffko
Probably the best way to control costs is to purchase an unfinished car from someone needing to get out of it for one reason or another.

[G.R.]

Jeff
I'm going to throw another idea out that you may, or may not have, considered. I bought a new SPF turnkey, 392 stroker, out the door for $52.5K about 3yrs ago---sold it last fall with the full intention of getting a new SPF Brock coupe---by the time I did some serious number crunching it would've cost nearly $90K + license, tax, insurance etc. to get it on the road---a little to much for me to invest in a "toy".

I wanted another Cobra---but I wanted one I could tinker with---I began a search for used ones, for me preferably a 289 this time around---I knew from experience and things I learned here and on other sites of which kits were good, who to be leary of etc..
In early December I located one in Ill.--the owner was desperate to sell because he wanted to buy a somewhat rare airplane---I have an old friend that lives close to the seller, not really a car guy, per se, but he did know a good Mechanic willing to check out the car---I paid the Mechanic a $100 to check out the car, got a good report, made a ridiculously low offer, negoiated the price with the seller, bought the car and had it shipped from Ill to WA for $19.5K---it ran but needed a lot of TLC---Found the car advertised in the Chicago Tribune.

I've been tearing things apart and putting them back together, done a few upgrades. Repaired and fixed a lot of neglected items.
Right now it is getting a new trans, clutch, pressure plate and lightend flywheel.

There are numerous turn-keys, needing completion, out there, as well as uncompleted rollers, that the owners put up for sale for one reason or another--Just an idea to ponder--often the price is near or a little above what the cost of a pallet kit would be.
Unless you are dead set on building one, and have the tools and equiptment, you may need---that may be the way for you to go.

Just an idea----FWIW

[jeffko]

Rich,
1. I have a few things going my way that I am planning on making a difference such as:
2. I have a good friend that owns a body shop. $1500 with me helping. It is nothing to spray the car compared to prep.
3. I have a neighbor/friend that is a very successful bracket racer. Although he drives a Chevelle, he has had several 302 Mustangs and is well connected with parts and machine shops.
4. I figure the FFR carbureted kit to be $14,100 with cutouts, heater, chromed roll bar and quick jacks, vintage gauges.
5. Front and rear suspension/brakes is about $2,500 including steering, 3-link and upgraded control arms.
6. Engine, trans, shifter, bell housing, clutch & driveshaft is at about $5,800.
7. I can get some cobra ‘R’ rims for less than $500 and some speed rated goodyears on the rims and balanced for $700.
All the numbers are budget plus 10% the exception of FFR and the body shop. I also work for a sheet metal contractor to help along special parts, extra aluminum panels, etc… Add to all of this some exceptional advice such as do’s and don’ts and I should be close. I can probably get away with some “well honey this is my first build” and top out at $27k. Wish me luck.
Jeff

By the way. I have read most all of FFR’s build manual and would now like to see one up close. I am a little concerned about being a touch over 6’ and 230lbs. Maybe a Windy City Meeting or someone’s house? Please…..

[CHRIS DAMSCH]

jeffko,

The DMV process in Illinois is fairly simple, if you have any specific questions about it there are many of us in this area who have recently gone through it. You should have no problems titling the car as whatever year you want (65, 04, etc.) As for the budget and actual costs keep your eye out. It's a buyers market right now. You can probably find yourself a partially finished project at a reasonable price. Come on down to our next wcc meeting and check out some cars. Everybody is extremely helpful. Look forward to meeting you.

[EMK]

-

[jeffko]

Big thanks to Mark Weseman & Russ Gelberg for taking the time for what I thought was just getting my feet wet. What wound up happening is that I got drenched in venom. I showed up at Mark's house at about 10:30 after he offered to take some time out of his morning to show me his Cobra and his build album. As if that were not enough, he suggested we go for a spin. Now here is a gent for ya. It was mid 30's at best....but who could tell? Well probably Mark, but certainly not me. Boy is that car sweet. Then I thought the excitement was over as he abruptly turns into a parking lot...I was thinking we were turning around to head back or something was loose in the trunk. Well we were heading back alright, but with a very excited admirer of this car at the wheel. If he had second thoughts after I almost ran into him, trying to get to the driver's seat, as I was telling him that I had not drove a stick for at least 20 years.....I could not tell. Mark is cool under pressure! I mean I took off like the car was mine (did not burn any clutch though), took a little time getting used to manual brakes..in traffic no less...and then missed the turn that would have taken us on a much safer path back his garage. Took his car right up Dundee in noon traffic and sadly made all the right turns to his garage. I am not sure I should be telling all this, but if you have ever dreamed and planned on something for literally years and then to have someone unselfishly afford you the experience of driving your dream. Well....hats off to you Mark! Thank you! Thanks also to Russ for taking the time away from his business to show me his in progress build. I do not know how Russ can keep from locking the doors. I would not let anybody, but the UPS man inside. Since meeting Marty, then Mark, Russ and all the helpful posts I have come to understand that this is much more than a car. I am looking forward to meeting the rest of you guys, sharing stories, playing some low bass exhaust tunes and helping the next newbie.