Keisler SS700 gearbox.

Donunder · #1 (**permalink**) 11-07-2013, 05:46 AM

It's time to change my old Muncie 4-speed for a new 5-speed box.

My first thought was to just go for the proven TKO 600 but has anyone investigated, or actually installed, the new SS 700 from Keisler? It seems a good unit but its release has been beset with availability problems.

SS700 | Keisler Engineering - KeislerAuto.com

I'm on the other side of the world and therefore far from factory help should things go wrong. Should I be a pioneer and be the first down here to buy one, or stay with what's known and go the TKO option?

On another note, and bearing in mind that we are stuck with ridiculous 70 mph speed restrictions in Oz, is the .64 fifth gear a realistic option for the TKO with my 3.6 Jag rear end?

lovehamr · #2 (**permalink**) 11-07-2013, 01:26 PM

If you are going to obey the speed limit then I would opt for the .80 overdrive. That's what I did. ;-)

mdross1 · #3 (**permalink**) 11-08-2013, 05:32 AM

Your 3.6 gear should work great with an OD trans. Our car has a 3.7 gear with OD TKO I consider the perfect combo for around town and highway both.
Personally would not be afraid of the Keisler.

Shootnride · #4 (**permalink**) 11-08-2013, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donunder

On another note, and bearing in mind that we are stuck with ridiculous 70 mph speed restrictions in Oz, is the .64 fifth gear a realistic option for the TKO with my 3.6 Jag rear end?

Donunder,

I can't comment on the selection of transmissions but I'll give my two cents worth about the overdrive. I live in the Peoples Republic of California, so suffer from the speed restrictions as you do. My car has the TKO with the .64 OD, 3.73 rear end, and I really like it. At 70 MPH I'm running 2000 RPM (28" tall rear tires) which equates to "fantastic" fuel mileage of about 14 MPG

Regards,

Ted

Jack Zupan · #5 (**permalink**) 11-11-2013, 10:24 AM

I have a TKO II in my car with 0.84:1 overdrive. The reason I didn't go with the 0.64:1 ratio was because a number of people unhappy with it simply because there was such a huge drop from 4th which is 1:1 to 0.64:1 that it felt funny. I have been happy with what I have.

Regarding Kiesler I would suggest you cruise some of the Mopar sites. While they have some supporters, most folks are unhappy with them. They advertise a bolt in installation and it is anything but from what I read. You have to cut the trans tunnel and weld in a new piece for one thing. Most people who have decent cars are not willing to do that. There is one guy who just finished putting a SS 700 in a B-Body and it took a lot of fabrication. Luckily the guy was experienced and had the equipment and skill to do it.

The other knock on them is that their customer service is poor. Given your location that could be a big issue.

To be clear I don't have first hand experience with Kiesler but I am on a number of Mopar sites daily and that is what I picked up. Try doing a search on moparts.com or forbbodiesonly.com and see what you can find.

Tommy · #6 (**permalink**) 11-11-2013, 04:49 PM

Don,
There's a good bit of discussion about the SS700 in the C1/C2 section of CorvetteForum.com. The consensus over there is that Keisler has significant communications and supply chain shortcomings, but its products and customer support after the product is finally received is very good. Dealing with supply chain and communications problems from your distance might make it more trouble than its worth.

RestoCreations · #7 (**permalink**) 11-11-2013, 09:07 PM

Just FYI, last weekend i spoke to the company that manufactures the SS700 for Kiesler and they said they are 200 backlogged currently. They said they hoped to catch up soon, but that it was taking them 9 months to get transmissions out previously. If you need something relatively quick, then you might want to go with a TKO 600 from another company.

RestoCreations · #8 (**permalink**) 11-11-2013, 09:10 PM

And if you do go with the tko 600, i suggest the .084 overdrive as well, especially if you have a larger profile cam and rear end gears in the 3.00-4.00 range. otherwise, you will end up with a 5th gear that is worthless below 60mph.

Donunder · #9 (**permalink**) 11-12-2013, 06:25 AM

Thanks to all for your replies.

I've been reading the Kiesler newsletters and reading "between the lines" I've gained the impression that either the SS700 is so popular that Kiesler is having difficulty coping with the demand, or.. they're having supply chain problems of their own making that they're not able to address satisfactorily.

Either way it looks like a long wait before anything I order from them would find its way down under. And -- there's always the niggling feeling that any possible after sales problems could be difficult to resolve from way down here.

So--decision made--I'll go for the TKO 600 with the .82 fifth gear. I feel that with the fairly mild cam in my 454, it would still be grunty enough to cope with a .64 but only for extended highway use at 110 kmh where posted. Autobahns are but a distant dream in Oz so I agree the .82, while working harder, will be more useable more often under varying road and traffic conditions.

Again, thank you everyone for your helpful comments and advice.

RestoCreations · #10 (**permalink**) 11-12-2013, 08:23 AM

Sounds like you made the right decision. However, for others or if you change your mind, Legend gear and transmission is the name of the company that produces the unit for keisler. I'd bypass Keisler and give them a call to find out the truth on lead times.

PANAVIA · #11 (**permalink**) 11-13-2013, 02:41 AM

Dont Forget long term availability; I would go TKO , AKA in 20 years you will be able to get parts.

joyridin' · #12 (**permalink**) 11-13-2013, 04:44 AM

This was on another site for sale. Not sure if anything is worthwhile to you or if you are better off going new with everything. Just a FYI. It is not mine:

For Sale: TKO600 and supporting stuff... - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

Donunder · #13 (**permalink**) 11-15-2013, 04:38 AM

Thanks JR but I've decided to go all new and get the box shifter and associated clutch assembly locally to avoid the hassles of bringing in parts from the US.

Would you believe that from a logistics viewpoint it's a lot less drama to import a complete car than bits and pieces? And the present cost of freight for this gearbox from the point of purchase to Long Beach and then over here by container and then port charges etc at this end makes the simplest job expensive.

Also at the risk of offending the Arntz guys, while everything is out, I'm taking out the floor mounted pedals and having some Wilwood hanging pedals fitted with master cylinders in the engine bay together with remote reservoirs. If our measurements prove correct, this will allow us to drop the floor by about three inches (where the master cylinders currently live) and give me another few inches longitudinal leg room as well.

The end result will be a smoother gear box, better economy (yeah, I know, big deal!

) lots more leg room, no more cracking my right knee on the underside of the dashboard going from throttle to brake, and somewhere down beside the clutch pedal to stick my size 14 on long cruises. The joys of being 6'5"....

joyridin' · #14 (**permalink**) 11-15-2013, 05:31 AM

Yes, I thought about it after I posted. You would be pretty much SOL if you received the trans and something was wrong that maybe even the seller did not know.

I agree on the pedals. There is very little room. I am not as tall as you, but when you are just driving down the highway, there is nowhere to put your left foot. The pedal is far to the left so not even a place for a foot rest. I looked at installing hanging pedals, but I do not recall seeing any steel bars or plates for pedal supports. You would almost have to hang them from the fiberglass. I guess I wasn't overly comfortable doing that.

Good luck with your install!

SPF1061 · #15 (**permalink**) 11-15-2013, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donunder

Thanks to all for your replies.

I've been reading the Kiesler newsletters and reading "between the lines" I've gained the impression that either the SS700 is so popular that Kiesler is having difficulty coping with the demand, or.. they're having supply chain problems of their own making that they're not able to address satisfactorily.

Either way it looks like a long wait before anything I order from them would find its way down under. And -- there's always the niggling feeling that any possible after sales problems could be difficult to resolve from way down here.

So--decision made--I'll go for the TKO 600 with the .82 fifth gear. I feel that with the fairly mild cam in my 454, it would still be grunty enough to cope with a .64 but only for extended highway use at 110 kmh where posted. Autobahns are but a distant dream in Oz so I agree the .82, while working harder, will be more useable more often under varying road and traffic conditions.

Again, thank you everyone for your helpful comments and advice.

I have read about the Kesslers with interest and they have always seemed to have a bit of a "vaporware" aura surrounding them. I think the road race version of the TKO600 is a good choice. If you haven't seen it, you might want to check out this thread:

seeking advice on shifter upgrade

I am pretty sure that Liberty sells just the parts kit for this mod (as well as completed transmissions). I don't think there is anything to it that a good local transmission guy couldn't do. Just throwing it out there.

Donunder · #16 (**permalink**) 11-15-2013, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joyridin'

I do not recall seeing any steel bars or plates for pedal supports. You would almost have to hang them from the fiberglass. I guess I wasn't overly comfortable doing that.

JR

Point taken.

The fabricator who'll be doing the install identified that very problem, and he has suggested making up a steel frame along the front of the footbox that will help support the pedal assembly. He's done a lot of race car fabbing and has built many Cobras so I'm confident in his ability to come up with something strong enough to do the job without looking like some ugly afterthought.

I'm with you though -- doing a panic stop and having the whole assembly come loose from just the fibreglass mounting wasn't something I wanted to contemplate. Although having said that, my son's early Contemporary has the pedal hanging asssembly mounted on top of the footbox without any obvious reinforcing, and it's lasted for thirty years with no problems....so??? Maybe thirty years ago with fibreglass still in its infancy and with the way thicker panels used then, there was more purchase/strength to do stuff like that?

Whatever -- the steel frame is a definite.

And SPF1061

Thanks for your tip.

I'm sourcing my box through the Absolute Pace guys here in Queensland who in turn use TKOs almost exclusively in their cars. Their boxes all have the upgrade you mention along with the centre placed shift as their cars, like mine, have the engines set back quite some way.

Tommy · #17 (**permalink**) 01-18-2014, 06:32 AM

Keisler Epitaph: Bankruptcy

SPF1061 · #18 (**permalink**) 01-18-2014, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donunder

JR

And SPF1061

Thanks for your tip.

I'm sourcing my box through the Absolute Pace guys here in Queensland who in turn use TKOs almost exclusively in their cars. Their boxes all have the upgrade you mention along with the centre placed shift as their cars, like mine, have the engines set back quite some way.

Donunder,
Don't know if you have finished up this project already, but to follow up on my suggestion...I just put the moded TKO600 tranny in my car and it is WELL worth the expense/trouble. This is a totally different transmission. Very positive, glitch free shifts. Sweet.