New Guy Build Questions...

[willtwallace]

Hello All,

Let me start by saying, owning a Cobra replica has been a dream since I was a young Soldier and first laid eyes on one. I’m now on my 25th year of service, preparing to retire, and getting prepared to start building my car. Over the years I have purchased many books, read many articles, watched every show that dealt in some way with Cobra kits cars, and watched in amazement as Mr. Pratt droped millions of dollars for one on Barrett Jackson. So now that all the kids are grown and no longer in the house it’s time to fill that hole in the nest.

My preliminary goals are to build it in stages since my budget is limited. Order complete kit first, drivetrain, and paint. I am 90% decided on the color; BMW Fire Orange (paint code: U94) that is on the Lime Rock edition M3, with flat black stripes, black roll bar, and side exhaust.

So, here is where I need input (reality check) from you guys (gender neutral term):

Pin drive or 5 lug? I am leaning toward pin drive. Pros and cons?

Motor….this is the hardest. Bottom line, I want a big block!

My first impulse is to drop in my favorite dream motor a ZZ572 crate motor. Yes, a Chevy motor. But, from what I have heard online this would pretty much lock me out of taking it to any car hangout, fear of being abused by the purist.

My second choice would be the Ford 460 big block.

Any and all comments and suggestion are welcomed.

William

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
– Apostle Paul – Philippians 1:21

[Three Peaks]

William, welcome to the madness. I'm sure there will be lots of input for your questions so I'll just throw in my 2 peso's worth.

Yes, a Chev motor will probably be a red flag to some but it is your car- do it the way you want it. With 25 years in the service, you've probably got pretty thick skin.....

Two things to consider- the Chev engine may kill resale value unless you find just the right buyer when the time comes (and it always does eventually)- and be sure that whatever kit you choose that your engine choice is supported by the manufacturer so the proper mounts and space is available for the engine to actually fit in the compartment and connect to everything properly- headers, transmission, engine mounts, radiator connections, etc... not all kits fit all contingencies.

Another point- the Big Block chev and the 385 series Ford engines (429, 460) are heavy engines. For purposes of a lightweight car like a Cobra, be sure you have the proper set up to handle the extra weight up front and be prepared for a car that may or may not handle like the sports car it is supposed to be. IMHO a small block or 427 FE is a better choice due to weight considerations. If cost is a factor, you would be better off with a well built small block. You can easily get more than enough horsepower from a good stroked small block in a smaller, lighter package to wet your pants and that of your passenger.

Pin drive or 5 lug? Again, may be a cost consideration here. Much cheaper to go with the 5 lug wheels, but depending on which replica you buy, it may or may not come with pin drive mounts. Then the decision is made for you. If cost isn't a consideration in this case, the pin drive are more original looking and definitely have that cool factor. For a new set of pin drive wheels you're looking at $1600-$2,000 plus the cost of the adaptors if the car doesn't come with pin drive already.

Good luck with your search. Which replica have you been looking at the most? Some are supported better than others but there are lots of great manufacturers represented here.

Bob

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

William, welcome to the madness. I'm sure there will be lots of input for your questions so I'll just throw in my 2 peso's worth.

Yes, a Chev motor will probably be a red flag to some but it is your car- do it the way you want it. With 25 years in the service, you've probably got pretty thick skin.....

Two things to consider- the Chev engine may kill resale value unless you find just the right buyer when the time comes (and it always does eventually)- and be sure that whatever kit you choose that your engine choice is supported by the manufacturer so the proper mounts and space is available for the engine to actually fit in the compartment and connect to everything properly- headers, transmission, engine mounts, radiator connections, etc... not all kits fit all contingencies.

Another point- the Big Block chev and the 385 series Ford engines (429, 460) are heavy engines. For purposes of a lightweight car like a Cobra, be sure you have the proper set up to handle the extra weight up front and be prepared for a car that may or may not handle like the sports car it is supposed to be. IMHO a small block or 427 FE is a better choice due to weight considerations. If cost is a factor, you would be better off with a well built small block. You can easily get more than enough horsepower from a good stroked small block in a smaller, lighter package to wet your pants and that of your passenger.

Pin drive or 5 lug? Again, may be a cost consideration here. Much cheaper to go with the 5 lug wheels, but depending on which replica you buy, it may or may not come with pin drive mounts. Then the decision is made for you. If cost isn't a consideration in this case, the pin drive are more original looking and definitely have that cool factor. For a new set of pin drive wheels you're looking at $1600-$2,000 plus the cost of the adaptors if the car doesn't come with pin drive already.

Good luck with your search. Which replica have you been looking at the most? Some are supported better than others but there are lots of great manufacturers represented here.

Bob

yes my skin has thickened over the years.

The Chevy motor is just a comfort issue, that's all ive ever worked on. But, i will most likely go with a big block Ford or a small block 427. Im not a purist, BUT, if i put the 427 badge on it, i want to have a 427 in the bay. Maybe not the OG, but a representation of it. Bottom line i want at least 500whp, and yes as you have already stated that's too easy for most SB strokers.

I have been eyeing FFR, SPF, and Backdraft. I LOVE the quality of the SPF, BUT i want to build it myself. Soooooo....

Another thing, its soooooooooo hard to decipher what's true and what's not about each of the manufactures. Because typically each of their individual customers is ferociously brand loyal and has nothing but negative comments about the other.

from what i can tell, SPF only sells completed rollers or turn keys. Backdarft the same. FFR sems to be the only one that sells a GOOD quality kit?

Help!

[willtwallace]

Bob,

Case in point. I was talking with a guy a few days ago about the SPF kit, he owns a few of them, and when i mentioned i was looking at the Back draft RT3, he said, oh man stay away from those, "they use parts off BMWs from the junkyard."

I didn't comment, because i really don't know, BUT i find that hard to believe. Its just tough to find some unbiased advice.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by willtwallace

I have been eyeing FFR, SPF, and Backdraft. I LOVE the quality of the SPF, BUT i want to build it myself. Soooooo....

If you want to build it, then the best replica is the ERA. However, the wait to get one may be a year, more or less.

[Three Peaks]

Almost any of the kits are going to be as good as YOU make them. Lots of happy Backdraft customers on this forum, along with FFR and many others. If you really want to build it yourself and you want or need the support of lots of experienced builders helping you along the way when you have questions ( and you will), then Factory Five kits are hard to beat. Probably one of the best values around for a guy who wants to put their own stamp on their build and make it their own. And at a price point most guys can afford.

You can use a donor car for parts, buy rebuilt or used parts and clean them up and/or rebuild them to new condition, or buy all new parts to make your build just how you like it. Lots of options also and support from the manufacturer for different engine combos, rear ends (solid axle or IRS), interior options, guage options, the list goes on and on.

Also, with their new Mark IV design, the body shape is very close to the original Cobra shape and feel. They even have a new 289 FIA/USSRC body style that is very nice. Lots of Chevy engine builders on their site and they even have their own forum so you can get your questions answered by guys who have actually done it themselves.

Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not an FFR owner- I built my car primarily from scratch. But I've watched the FFR forum and the developments over the years and it is a very well run company with a very good, well engineered and designed kit, and lots of them on the road so you have lots of information and performance parts available for them.

Most of the guys on this site and other sites, including FFR usually don't run down other kits much any more. I think companies like FFR, SPF, Hurricane, ERA and others have forced all the manufacturers to raise their game and it has benefited the customers the most with higher quality products for everyone. Hard to pick a bad kit these days, IMHO.

Bob

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

Almost any of the kits are going to be as good as YOU make them. Lots of happy Backdraft customers on this forum, along with FFR and many others. If you really want to build it yourself and you want or need the support of lots of experienced builders helping you along the way when you have questions ( and you will), then Factory Five kits are hard to beat. Probably one of the best values around for a guy who wants to put their own stamp on their build and make it their own. And at a price point most guys can afford.

You can use a donor car for parts, buy rebuilt or used parts and clean them up and/or rebuild them to new condition, or buy all new parts to make your build just how you like it. Lots of options also and support from the manufacturer for different engine combos, rear ends (solid axle or IRS), interior options, guage options, the list goes on and on.

Also, with their new Mark IV design, the body shape is very close to the original Cobra shape and feel. They even have a new 289 FIA/USSRC body style that is very nice. Lots of Chevy engine builders on their site and they even have their own forum so you can get your questions answered by guys who have actually done it themselves.

Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not an FFR owner- I built my car primarily from scratch. But I've watched the FFR forum and the developments over the years and it is a very well run company with a very good, well engineered and designed kit, and lots of them on the road so you have lots of information and performance parts available for them.

Most of the guys on this site and other sites, including FFR usually don't run down other kits much any more. I think companies like FFR, SPF, Hurricane, ERA and others have forced all the manufacturers to raise their game and it has benefited the customers the most with higher quality products for everyone. Hard to pick a bad kit these days, IMHO.

Bob

good point, thanks

[DanEC]

I'll second ERA is a top-notch kit, but it is geared more towards the traditionalist and it can be fairly expensive. If you are wanting to build a traditional, original appearing car you couldn't make a better choice except spending more to step up to a Kirkham. If not tied tightly to tradition, in addition to FFR I would also look at Hurricane Motors and Unique which can be as traditional as you want to make them, or can be changed up to suit your custom car or hot rod mood. I think you will find what you want within that 3.

What I knew about motors and drivetrains was pretty much limited to BB Chevy and Mopars. But I went with an FE engine in my car and I'm glad I did. There are a few unique things about them if you were planning to assemble your own but there is quite a bit of help on the forums. My stroked 428 was built on a budget by a noted builder and with clutch, bellhousing, and so forth probably set me back about $14k all together. Stroked small block 427s are also out there in crate form for even less money.

Good luck.

[Clois Harlan]

I have know several that went the BOSS 9 / 460 route and those engines make a ton of power. However, I don't believe I have ever seen a 460 engine in a Backdraft but I have seen several Coyote Engines which are roughly the same physical size. Backdraft makes a very nice product as does several other manufacturers.

It is hard to beat the fit and finish of an SPF or BD and I wouldn't hesitate a moment to go with one of their kits. Welcome to our world and fwiw, whatever you choose, you're going to love it.

Clois Harlan

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by DanEC

I'll second ERA is a top-notch kit, but it is geared more towards the traditionalist and it can be fairly expensive. If you are wanting to build a traditional, original appearing car you couldn't make a better choice except spending more to step up to a Kirkham. If not tied tightly to tradition, in addition to FFR I would also look at Hurricane Motors and Unique which can be as traditional as you want to make them, or can be changed up to suit your custom car or hot rod mood. I think you will find what you want within that 3.

What I knew about motors and drivetrains was pretty much limited to BB Chevy and Mopars. But I went with an FE engine in my car and I'm glad I did. There are a few unique things about them if you were planning to assemble your own but there is quite a bit of help on the forums. My stroked 428 was built on a budget by a noted builder and with clutch, bellhousing, and so forth probably set me back about $14k all together. Stroked small block 427s are also out there in crate form for even less money.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Clois Harlan

I have know several that went the BOSS 9 / 460 route and those engines make a ton of power. However, I don't believe I have ever seen a 460 engine in a Backdraft but I have seen several Coyote Engines which are roughly the same physical size. Backdraft makes a very nice product as does several other manufacturers.

It is hard to beat the fit and finish of an SPF or BD and I wouldn't hesitate a moment to go with one of their kits. Welcome to our world and fwiw, whatever you choose, you're going to love it.

Clois Harlan

Thank you gentlemen

[mdross1]

Welcome WilltWallace, and thank you for your service. You will have strong opinions here about the kits qualities and power trains I say trust your gut and go with what will make you happy in the end. Any kit you choose you will be in control of it's build quality.

Chevrolet, Ford, big block, small block again it is up to you after all these are kit cars. My 460 powered car was initially set up for road racing trust me it is a pure adrenaline rush the big engine hurts nothing in the handling dept. The big block torque hit off idle is something you never get sick of. Racing these cars you will need to stay on top of tires and brakes if you want to be competitive.

Finding a buyer should never be a problem as long as your not desperate for cash when that time comes. Either direction you choose have fun and do not get weighed down with negativity stay focused and you will not regret the time it takes to build and own one of the coolest American Hot Rods on the planet.

Mike Ross

[autobody prof.]

William, First and Foremost thank you for your service to this great country. I remember going through what you are now trying to decide what car to build/buy. PM(private message) me and I will send you pictures and give you more info on the Pacific Roadster that I built.

Don

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by mdross1

.... you will not regret the time it takes to build and own one of the coolest...

...especially when you build it in white!!

[lippy]

William,

I wanted to build mine as well and went with the ERA. The experience was very good and the kit turned out great, but ERAs are far more expensive than FFRs and most of the others. I do think FFR makes a great kit, but you should make sure you see a few of any brand you consider in person before you decide.

Whatever brand you use, I would spend the money on an independent rear. With these cars, the combination of a long engine and trans and short wheelbase necessitate a very short driveshaft. With a solid rear that is travel-limited, light weight, and high power, it can be pretty dangerous IMO.

For the engine, all the ones you mentioned are good choices. I have an FE 427 and wouldn't do it differently, but to be honest, the small-block Fords and the Chevy's (esp LS) are probably better engines from power, cost, and reliability standpoints. You shouldn't worry about what others will think. It will be a cool car with a Ford, Chevy, or whatever, so do what you want.

On the wheels, I think the pin drives really make the look of the car. To save money, I went with the 5-pin/adapter set-up, rather than the 6-pin one. Other than a slight weight penalty, they look great and work perfectly.

-Lippy

[willtwallace]

hmmmm, why do some of my replies make it to the forum and some don't?

Mods am i doing something wrong?

[Paintwerks]

William, g'day from Australia.

Myself and about 50 others to date have placed our faith and our money on an Australian designed and built kit, the Pace 427SC. It is made up on the Gold Coast and used an aluminium chassis and carbon/kevlar/fibreglass body. The body shape is gorgeous and the quality about as perfect as you can get. Many guys are just polishing their bodies and running with gelcoat.

The kit comes with pin drive wheels and can accept Chev or Ford motors.

I am fitting the mighty 585hp GM LSA supercharged with a TR6060 trans. About 10 others are going this route.

The exchange rate is excellent between the US and Australia (in your favour), and they are building these cars for export. It's well worth a look. I lived in America and was going to build an FFR...but the Pace blows the FFR away. The FFR is a great car but the Pace is a step above.

Absolute Pace - Kit Car Manufacturer of Cobra & GT40 Replica's and other modern Sportscar kits (formally Race Car Replicas Australia)

Absolute Pace 427 SC Registered

Cheers,
Simon

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by Paintwerks

William, g'day from Australia.

Myself and about 50 others to date have placed our faith and our money on an Australian designed and built kit, the Pace 427SC. It is made up on the Gold Coast and used an aluminium chassis and carbon/kevlar/fibreglass body. The body shape is gorgeous and the quality about as perfect as you can get. Many guys are just polishing their bodies and running with gelcoat.

The kit comes with pin drive wheels and can accept Chev or Ford motors.

I am fitting the mighty 585hp GM LSA supercharged with a TR6060 trans. About 10 others are going this route.

The exchange rate is excellent between the US and Australia (in your favour), and they are building these cars for export. It's well worth a look. I lived in America and was going to build an FFR...but the Pace blows the FFR away. The FFR is a great car but the Pace is a step above.

Absolute Pace - Kit Car Manufacturer of Cobra & GT40 Replica's and other modern Sportscar kits (formally Race Car Replicas Australia)

Absolute Pace 427 SC Registered

Cheers,
Simon

good stuff, thanks