Wider racing rear wheel arches

[427SSSS]

Trevor Legate's book: COBRA The First 40 years, chapter 8 SEVEN LITER POWER page 135 states: ....This example features the wider racing rear wheel arches.

This is all I've been able to find on Cobras with "the wider racing rear wheel arches."

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Now, I acquired this Paul Bennett mold, which has a 76" width. I'm wondering if Paul was trying to copy the Cobra in Trevor's book.

Does anyone know anything, or can you send me someplace that will tell me more about "the wider racing rear wheel arches?

Thanks, Wayne

[1985 CCX]

Not sure it references anything more than the standard comp or S/C? Sounds like the comparison is to the redesigned 427 Cobra versus narrower 289 on the previous page.
3020 is extended however that was probably done for Tom Paynr after the first set of rear fenders. Early pics show it tighter.

Remember referencing cars in pictures is not accurate way to go about replicating it.
Wheels could be offset and the car could be rebodied.

[1985 CCX]

CSX3020 under Jack Launtz watch.

[mickmate]

They made the 427 bodies wider than the 289 by simply making the tops of the fenders a couple of inches wider on those seams. You can see a neat picture of the 289 buck with a flare added to it here https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theaterThe flares were also added to many 289 comp cars and standard on the 427 cars (except narrow hip). The fender flares varied a lot in size and shape as they were hand made and often to accommodate more wheel and rubber for the track. Mine measures about 70 inches over the rear flares but this and most dimension sheets says they were 68" wide. 1966 AC Cobra 427 specifications, information, data, photos 51678

[427SSSS]

Thanks for the input.

The Shelby continuation Cobras list 68" width
ERA refers to 70" max width

I always thought 68" to 70" width was what most common. But what do I know?

This mold that Paul Bennett made/had made, is just a odd duck, why he chose 76 inches, who knows? From what I've been told, this rear half mold connects/matches up to "regular" 427 front half of body.

Driving me nuts, trying to find fiberglasser in Central California Coast area to splash a body out of this, to see how it looks.

[1985 CCX]

Hmmm

I never heard of Bennett? They pull molds of an existing car?
Educate me as this is great stuff. ��

Always remember as race cars most saw lots of damage. Repairs, replacement panels, hammered repairs and bondo common.
Most are asymmetrical and exact not the norm.
Each car varies a bit.....

Maybe he chose 76" so he could be low and slow....✌️ Lol

[427SSSS]

1985 CCX,
Paul had a one man shop in San Leandro, California. At first he built square tube frame cars similar to Arntz and Butler, I read somewhere that he worked with one of them for little while, I think it was Butler, I'd have to look at my files. Later on, Paul designed and built 2" round tube chassis, with an Indy car type front suspension, he explained his concept in three page flyer, I've posted it over in the Arntz/Butler forum. I've also posted there, and in my CC photos, some pictures of his round tube frame.
Where he got/made the mold, I do not know, I do know it's VERY similar to the mold the late Tim Figuar, of FiberJet Industries, in Roseville, Ca. made.

[1985 CCX]

Nice update.
How about some more pics of the body?

[427SSSS]

Carbon fiber body, the doors, hood and trunk are fiberglass

[1985 CCX]

Nice ✌️

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

repairs and bondo common.
Most are asymmetrical and exact not the norm.
Each car varies a bit.....

I read somewhere that back in the day when they were racing and had tire rub, they would just use a phone book as a dolly and a hammer to beat the fenders out in the pits! So, as 1985 CCX said, each car varies...

[427SSSS]

West Coast Customs states on their website, 76" rear width.
Now, I'm wondering if Paul made the mold off a West Coast Custom, rather than create the extra width rear from scratch?

Paul built and later designed Cobras to race, he raced them himself, he used Jaguar rear ends, or modifications of them, the wider rear end would lend itself to racing, would it not?

[razerwire]

Just to play around Paul put 15" wide slicks on back of my car. Body was from Butler with some work done to the mold when Paul got it. Standing at front of car looking down one side by parking light of the body was forward from other side. Paul fixed that and some smaller things. The subject was not brought up until first body was put on frame. Paul made wheel base 90" but body set up at 91". Did not look right so suspension move was fix. I still have Jongbloed wheels and tires. Center of wheels were cast in Hayward and high grade aluminum was used. They ring if you tap them and original polish is still beautiful . Paul also used a couple of body from Dan Fodge , don't know history of that body. Fodge was well known back then and had several cars featured in magazines. Fodge had billet rear a arms way back then. Can't remember year but all this takes place about the time Butler went out of business.

[427SSSS]

razerwire,
thanks for the info/insite.

Dan Fodge,
Tim Figuar of Fiberjet Industries made a mold for Dan Fodge, Tim said they tweaked it for months until they were satisfied with it. I bought that mold off Tim some ten years ago, then in one of the three dumbest things I've ever done, I sold it when I moved to Texas six years ago. (tried to track it down when I moved back to CA last year, no luck). Tim had a dunebuggy busness, and was an ace fiberglasser/mold maker.

Tim and I were at a Knott's Kit Car show years and years ago, saw several Bennetts and Butlers, we were amazed at how they looked "exactly" like Tim/Dans bodies.

First/top photo, Dan Fodge racing.
Second photo, one of the bodies out of Tim/Dan's mold
Third: Photo taken from photos hanging in Tim's office, of mold being made.

[razerwire]

I do remember Paul fixing the back half of a customers car. The car was total mess but just back half. Paul had half a body made stopping at the door by side-pipes. He took off back half of wreak and grafted new back half onto front half joining them at door. Maybe you have modified mold for that repair? I did notice the Butler body com paired to Fodge body was a lot thicker. Fodge body had better gel coat. Put a Fodge body on my car and went back to Pauls/Butler body, I liked the way if fit better. Interesting thread, please continue.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by 427SSSS

West Coast Customs states on their website, 76" rear width.
Now, I'm wondering if Paul made the mold off a West Coast Custom, rather than create the extra width rear from scratch?

Paul built and later designed Cobras to race, he raced them himself, he used Jaguar rear ends, or modifications of them, the wider rear end would lend itself to racing, would it not?

"West Coast Customs"? Do you mean "West Coast Dreams" - the company formerly owned by Vern Redel? They certainly quote a 76" rear width. http://www.cobrakit.com/Specificatio...ifications.htm

[427SSSS]

cycleguy55

Yup, my mistake, too good a time in the 60's

Similarities among Arntz/Butler/Bennett: Tim and I seeing the cars at Knott's, well, me saying they looked alike, that's just me, a novice, I'd take it with a grain of salt; but Tim, who made molds, made a Cobra mold, that's an "expert" making that statement.

Monster, over at BACC, calls his car: "my Arntz/Bennett/Butler" in one post.
If I remember correctly, he posted awhile back that he went to Paul Bennett, and Paul said it was one of his cars; Monster also said he went to Arntz or Bennett, and he said it was one of his cars.....

I asked Tim, where/which car he made the mold off of, he said he did not know, Dan just brought him a Cobra and asked that Tim make a mold for him.
So, then I stopped in at Dan Fodge's shop in Elkhorn, and asked if he knew/remembered where the Cobra for the mold came from; he did not.

[427SSSS]

As I double posted, I've erased this duplicate post and will add something a bit more interesting:

Paul Bennett also made a 289 Cobra using the same/similar 2" tube chassis, modified, of course, this one came already glassed onto the frame:

[Thor maine]

I think the specifications from the West Coast Dreams Lingerie site are much more interesting. I do remember North American Fiberglass had a comp body they made that was heavily "flared" both front and rear, it would fit some super wide rubber . How about some super wide Silicone, I am having a West Coast dream.

[427SSSS]

So the width of the Stallion on this website states: "76" rear width".

Cobra "http://www.cobrakit.com/Specifications/Specifications.htm

And then on another site: "West Coast Cobra still sells a kit very similar to the old Stallion."

I found, in Paul's notes the attached two pages of notes, hard to read the handwriting, but interesting, nonetheless.