What is new with seat belts- racing harness?

[Michael C Henry]

I'm still running the belts that the original builder made. Wide Simpson lap belts and Yd single point shoulder straps from regular smooth OEM belt material coming through the rear bulkhead. The old Simpson lap belts has a large piece leather piece sewn to the latch side to keep all the end connections off my guts. I remember many times leaving and still trying to hook everything up . Trying to stack all the shoulder and other lap belts on the tongue and then catching everything with the hook on the lever. These belts are too old. SFI tags are missing and out of date. Probably wouldn't fly with a track day, if ever would.
I've grown to like the looks and function of the newer cam lock belt systems. The military used them in the armored Vehicles maybe just to get the soldiers to use them. The ARMY rigs are full of hard a and sharp spots, you don't want to hit with any part of your body. On the drivers side I have a spreader bar on the roll bar with two eyes for the new shoulder strap anchors above my shoulders. I'm using the nostalgic buckets and anti submarine belts don't do much. So I see a five point harness but not use the antisubmarine part.
If I was using a new racing seat with sides and a higher back and head support the anti submarine belt would go through the bottom of the seat just ahead of your crotch. But I do not have a racing seats. The passenger side probably I'd still a use single point shoulder strap harness through the rear bulk head, on a reel or tension devise 'ill need something similar but no roll bar.

What don't I know? what can you tell me?

[1795]

Mike,

For racing I replaced the stock seats with some Kirkey aluminum racing seats. Being that my car is just for race and I was more considerate of safety than being original, I used a full racing seat for me and used the more vintage looking seat for the passenger. I have Racequip 6 point harnesses, both seats have the hole in them for the crotch links. I did not install the shoulder harnesses on the passenger, as it is just for looks.



Good luck.

Jim

[Jim Vander Wal]

I will only use cam lock style, too hard for me to use the latch link style. Also use shoulder harness and anti-sub even though it was over the front of the seat.

My new build will have the anti-sub threaded through the Kirkey race seat.

Why should the passenger have less safety equipment than the driver?

Jim

[1795]

Jim,

My car is race only, the passenger car is in there because I would incur a 25lb weight penalty without it. Nobody rides in that seat.

Jim

[Kit Coyle]

I have the normal 3" old style 4 point belt and recently added the 5th point
antisubmarine belt for a reason other than the designed intent. The lap
belt had a tendency to ride up my waist just enough to make the shoulder
harness loose enough to want to slip off my shoulders. The ASW belt holds the
lap belt securely down in the proper position. An irritating problem solved!

[RUFdriver]

Check out these belts from Sparco, 4 point support and a lot easier to use.
https://www.sparcousa.com/product/2-...lt-in#readmore

[Michael C Henry]

My last exploration into racing harnesses Pull up or pull down? I would choose pull down. Since I'd be by myself Pull down shoulder adjustment release and tightening . Id have a Yd antisubmarine, two straps from the floor to one metal end to the buckle do they do that? The heavy leather pad sewn to the buckle end of the lap belt, DO they do that or would I have to have that done?

[1795]

Mike,

My straps have the "Y" setup with two points on the floor coming up to one connection at the buckle. It is much more preferable to the single strap up the middle to prevent submarining under your lap belt. While both prevent submarining, one puts pressure on the inside of your thighs and into the hips, the other puts pressure straight up the middle through the family jewels .

You would probably need mohave the leather patch sewn on; I have not seen any newer models that way. Mine are pulldown, I do not know that there is any functional difference. I may try pull up next time I have to replace my belts as with my added side impact bracing the left had side lap is difficult to pull fully tight by myself due to the close proximity of the side bracing to the race seat.

Good luck in your decision making.

Jim

[Michael C Henry]

It has been years since I was on a tear to start changing stuff and was on the restraint issue. As I remember there are two different adjustment configuration systems pull up and pull down Most cars being pull down as the driver is doing it by and for his self. The pull up is for assistance from outside crew. I'm intent on replacing the 36 year old harnesses that came with the car . The lap belts are Simpson hook latch style. What I dislike is you have to remain still while stacking all the strap end connecters , in order, on what I'd call a tongue of the main buckle latch ending with the other side lap belt before closing then tightening the individual straps. If you move before closing or miss the hook when latching every thing falls and you start over. If it's a casual situation and are only lap belted in you have to disconnect and start over to add the shoulder or anti submarine connectors. I want new SFI rated cam latch harnesses with the driver side shoulder straps anchored to my roll bar spreader bar eyes. I get the Y antisubmarine belt so its a 5 point cam latch with 6 anchor points. My car isn't in my garage right now but the old Simpson main lap belt is of a wide web material conforming to everything and maybe gives a little as to not jerk me in two . All official tags are gone everything is got to be out of date. The shoulder harness are made from hard shiny OEM belt material. The old shoulder harnesses are a signal anchored strap anchored in the trunk and coming through the rear bulkhead through a chromed metal grommet and the Y to go over the shoulders I think they would preform but not certified for anything from here on. So thing are changing. I do not think current SFI is OK with a single anchor strap "Y"ing in to two shoulder straps. I have that changed for the driver side as I have a spreader bar attached to the lower part of the roll bar with two anchor eyes. I do not have a roll bar for a passenger side and the shoulder harness still will be anchored in the trunk and have to come through the rear bulk head. As I remember back when thinking about changing things the official way to get my shoulder harness the Y was out and it would need to be two straps coming from a anchor point. What would I do to the two single straps coming through the rear bulkhead to start separating them to go on either side of the neck before going over the shoulders?

[Michael C Henry]

I spent the better part of the day searching online and have as I understand Pull up and pull down refer to the motion to tighten as if the belt were anchored to the ground. I've seen new link lever latch with the leather "comfort patch" installed for under where all the straps meet the buckle on the lap or my belly. Normal use has the driver all buckled up before moving, doesn't always happen. I figure with the cam lock system I could get the main lap belts connected and be able to manage the anti submarine and shoulder straps one at a time later. I thought I heard years ago that the Y shoulder straps from a single anchored strap was not going to be accepted any more. Both of my current harnesses ( drivers and passenger) are like that now. they come through the rear bulk head with chromed escutcheon plates. If the single anchor strap Yd to two shoulder straps isn't accepted now, Ill have to make two new slots and install new escutcheon plates in the rear bulk head behind the passenger to separate the two anchored shoulder straps for the passenger side. I couldn't find any reference to SFI and "Y' belts online using all the word searches I could think of. What s' wrong ?

[1795]

Some race organizations are moving away from SFI and towards FIA belts as the FIA belts are good for 5 years as opposed to the SFI needing to be replaced every two years. Vintage groups have tended to overlook this previously, but are getting more strict with belts being out of date. My shoulder harness belts are both secured to the cross bar welded between the hoop legs. For the passenger you would need to find a secure point for the shoulder straps. Do not have the securing points too far apart from each other. You want the retention points to be close enough together that the straps some alongside the neck and not out towards the end of the shoulders, where they might slip off the shoulders.

[Michael C Henry]

Currently, and for the last 35 years, my car's shoulder straps were each a single strap anchored in the trunk to a frame point either side. The single anchored strap went through the rear bulk head wall with a slot and a chromed escutcheon plate on the carpet side. The shoulder strap then was sewn to form a "Y" that was the shoulder straps. Now I have spreader bar attached to the roll bar9driver side only) at the base of the roll bar hoop where it goes through the rear deck. that spreader bar has two eyes for attaching the shoulder strap ends (Yet to be employed). The thing is it's more than time everything get upgraded and the passenger is exact copy of the driver side will still need to come through the rear bulk head wall. It has the single belt coming through a centered slot. If I have to go to two separate shoulder straps going through to the trunk I'll have to cut two new slots through the bulk head and dress them up with the chromed escutcheons to separate the shoulder satraps guiding over the shoulder and away from the passenger's neck. The old "Y" took care of that. I know the harnesses I have not been recently approved by anyone, so when I go I want it to be about has correct as possible for a long as possible. So I have to change more stuff.

[Michael C Henry]

I was wrong after looking and reading the pull up vs pull down I find I had it wrong The pull up is what I want. Think of it as if the belt is anchored to the ground, pull up you'd pull towards the buckle to tighten, that is what I want That's what I want as you would be pulling towards the door or trans tunnel in a pull down system. the extra straps and loops meant for loosening and tightening with gloves on, is something I want in watching videos some manufactures are sewing the bracket in to the ends of the harness, that doesn't work for me.
I plan on buying two harnesses almost the same with the shoulder straps being kind of short and clip in for drivers side and longer shoulder straps extending through the bulk head wall into the trunk for passenger side. I'm imagining two 6 pt cam lock harness pull up pull tabs and loops all with clip in ends and eye bolts. probably new but with all most out of date certification labels.

[jmimac351]

Mike,

I have Schroth ASM belts in my BRZ track car. They "bolt in" and do NOT require a submarine belt. The "ASM" is their "anti-submarine" design. It would be an easier install in a street car and negate the need for the sub belt. See more here:

https://www.schrothracing.com/item/r...ning-Harnesses

In my NC Miata track car, I am running Safecraft belts. The setup I have is designed to be used with a HANS (narrower belts over shoulders), different design for lap belts, etc. When I ordered them from Charles Espenlaub at Safecraft, he said "PULL DOWN" is the way to go. One trick for getting the laps belts tighter (if that is the concern) and your seat is on sliders... move the seat back a little, tighten the belts, then slight the seat / yourself forward into the belts. They will be plenty tight.

https://www.safecraftracing.com/

[Michael C Henry]

I did a search on Jeg's and seems to me when I clicked ion the clip in option it went to dragster junior belts. what is Junior stuff? Currently My lap and anti sub belts are clip ins . the shoulder harnesses are woven to bolted in ( strap anchor ends) I figure that out of date certificates are better than no certificates. Clip in harnesses can be taken off to avoid washes and weather that may cause harm to the harnesses.,. Black hides a lot of stains that would be seen on bright colored strapping.. I want all the loops and sewn on handles on the harnesses for adjustments tightening and releasing with gloves on
What did I miss or should I be looking for?

[1795]

Micheal,

The cross bar that your shoulder straps are attached to should be located such that the point is between either exactly at your shoulder height or 10 degrees lower than your shoulders. It cannot be above your shoulders or else you will be at risk of sliding out if the vehicle gets upside down. At neutral to 10 degrees below you are at low risk for compression of the spine. This is from the SCCA rules.

Jim

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1795

Micheal,

The cross bar that your shoulder straps are attached to should be located such that the point is between either exactly at your shoulder height or 10 degrees lower than your shoulders. It cannot be above your shoulders or else you will be at risk of sliding out if the vehicle gets upside down. At neutral to 10 degrees below you are at low risk for compression of the spine. This is from the SCCA rules.

Jim

I'm glad there is starting to be a rational discussion of shoulder harnesses. Everyone has always just wanted to take a sawzall and cut holes in the back and strap it to the frame somewhere. Do so at your own risk.

[Tom Wells]

All,

Here are some of the "horse's mouth" specs for installing safety gear, including harnesses, HANS devices et al.

Worth a download and a read.

https://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/...llation-guides

Tom

[Michael C Henry]

If you go up a few threads on ALL COBRA TALK you'll come to current thread "I FINNALY DID IT". the poster has pictures of him and his new Shell Valley project. I think he is taller than me. Heck almost every one is taller than me. The curve of the rear deck causes a horizontal line, wide enough for individual shoulder straps, to be at the top of the nostalgic style seat back, bad angle for anyone that is no a child. I used a bolt on spreader bar with mounting eyes for the driver side and considered stopping work on a new custom soft top to allow me to have another similar roll bar made and mounted. I was too late. I under stand that a passenger would not be allowed at a track event but I've had my car for twenty years and not gotten to a track event yet. The passenger Should get as much protection as the driver, Not getting in is a start. Theses belts are not DOT , I think they are better(if done right) While not being as convenient to get in or out of. Staying with the car is ( I think) the best option. More stories if needed. I had my nostalgic style seats recovered in leather. Now I think it was a mistake, should have bought better seats. for both sides. and installed that other roll bar.
Joe who bought my 56 Bristle 43 years ago , has no intention of installing a roll bar and or better seats.

[Michael C Henry]

My new soft top works great over the roll bar. My roll bar is made of 1 1/2" tubing and is higher than a lot of the other roll bars around. The upholster used the hardware that came with the EM soft top an side curtain kits. It looks like the upholster raised the main top hoop up 1/2" with polished spacers where the hoop goes into the ferules, that I had not noticed and extended the top's rear flap to the trunk top seem. Every thing fits under the soft top. The upholster used the three rear window style. I used the roll bar cross member that Finish Line Cobra Accessories sold back in 2010 to attach my new shoulder straps to. Now Finish Line only has stuff for 2" roll bars. Now I need the bezel and grommet sets for 1 1/2" roll bar and the roll bar cross member to clamp on a 1 1/2" roll bar tubes. The object is to end up with two matching (mirror images) roll bars with the roll bar cross members to match. Id like to buy as much as possible rather than to have one offs made._