Power Steering

kevin_lewis · #1 (**permalink**) 05-23-2003, 09:22 AM

Has anyone managed to install a power steering pump on a 428 / 427 in a Classic Roadster. There is no room for a factory pump and before I go searching the junk yards for something small enough and making brackets etc. has someone done the leg work? I've also wondered is there an electric pump that would work with a Mustang II rack?

Mr.Fixit · #2 (**permalink**) 05-23-2003, 02:18 PM

Why power steering, these cars are light.

kevin_lewis · #3 (**permalink**) 05-23-2003, 03:32 PM

It's not real complicated it is just more comfortable to drive with power steering. I'm a big guy and chose to go with a small steering wheel to ease getting in and out of the vehicle. I've already built the car with a power rack in anticipation of using power steering. I've been driving it without the power so you can imagine what it is like to try and park

tonyvda · #4 (**permalink**) 05-23-2003, 03:56 PM

An electric pump should work with any power steering rack as all you're doing is providing simple hydraulic pressure .

The benefit of using an electric pump is that you can choose to switch it off when moving at speed to get the correct feel, and then switch it back on when parking to give you the fingertip parking required.

Cheers,

Tony

Excaliber · #5 (**permalink**) 05-23-2003, 03:58 PM

Why I WANT power steering in my Cobra, currently not P.S.

Racing! I got the car in a pretty mean slow speed four wheel drift in a big corner, counter steering and holding it OK, then I had to turn the wheel back quickly to compensate. Couldn't turn it fast enough! Plus it felt like the wheel was an 800 pound gorilla, it took everything I had to "crank" it back the other way. I guess the "G" forces, weight of the car, whatever you want to call it put such a load on the wheels combined with realativly slow speed I couldn't steer for squat!

Then I got to thinking, I wonder if I could increase my reaction time from snap left to snap right in the slalom. Now I'm SURE of it. I want P.S. with a good quick steering ratio. A ratio fast enough where you probably could not steer comfortably without P.S.

Ernie

Jack21 · #6 (**permalink**) 05-23-2003, 05:10 PM

Power steering in a CR Cobra. Have almost 13,000 miles and two years on P.S. equipped CR Cobra. Motor is tweaked 351W, so you'll have to do some pulley and bracket work for a 428FE.

But I love it! Good road feel, great parking manners, no problems, and no leaks.

Power rack. The MII cast iron rack weighs as much as a BB head, but the '79 and up rack is cast aluminum. Weight about the same as aluminum intake. Why late instead of MII rack? It fits, and it works. CR rack mount on pass side is slotted to accept either rack. AGR (Andy Granitelli Racing) is a steering rebuild shop in Ft. Worth TX. They make, and Summit sells, a standard ratio - high effort rebuilt late rack that fits a CR Cobra. They also make a fast ratio rack for you slalom guys, but the standard ratio is plenty quick enough for a street Cobra.

Since the center to center distance between the MII rack mount to rack centerline is shorter on the late Mustang, installed late M with offset bushings that lowered the late M rack.

Pump. Per AGR, either Ford (Mustang) or Saginaw pump will work, they preferred the Saginaw (aka GM/Chevy). Summit carries the AGR rebuilt low drag PS pump.

Street Rod shop called RB's Antique Automotive (Ads in every Street Rodder Mag) offers a pressure relief valve for the Saginaw pump that drops the line pressure from 1200 - 1300 psi to 800 - 900 psi. Perfect for light weight front ends on Street Rods, and Cobras. $39.95

Since the rest of the pulleys were March, the March PS pulley for Saginaw pump worked and fit just fine.

Lines. From Ford, got the low side return fitting for the rack which I cut and shortened. It's 3/8", and I plumbed it to pump return with 3/8" FI hose. Local atuo supply store furnished GM pump side line, and Ford rack side line. Cut off the fittings, and trash the rest of the perfectly good lines. Hydraulics shop (read fork lift and snow plow repair) mated 3/8" GM hi to 5/16" Ford hi. Everything bolted in.

Brackets. Some Ford pickups and vans use recirculating ball steering (like GM cars), and Saginaw pumps. The pump cradle bracket has a Ford part number. Visit your wrecking yard for this bracket. You have to fabricate or modify a block or head to pump cradle bracket to mount the pump.

Trial assembly is critical as the steering column must go over the header, and under the PS pump. It's a tight fit.

tnlprt · #7 (**permalink**) 05-23-2003, 06:27 PM

For a trick looking P S pump and bracket check out
www.AFCOracing.com I have Sweet mfg pump,bracket,
and rack mounted to a 427so in a late model stock car works fantastic
and very strong

rsimoes · #8 (**permalink**) 05-23-2003, 10:30 PM

Check out AGR Performance. They have some nice non OEM pumps. Call them and ask about their pumps. . .:

Marc Performance can give the pulleys, other than that a yard. ..

http://www.agrperformance.com

http://www.marchperf.com

Bill E · #9 (**permalink**) 05-23-2003, 11:12 PM

This is a KRC pump and one of our own brackets it is a trick set up and looks grate. The KRC pump has moor options for the valveing than any one. It requier a remote tank the best place to get the pump and tank is Southern Performance.

Tom Wells · #10 (**permalink**) 06-12-2003, 06:01 PM

Hey Jack21,

Quote:

Since the center to center distance between the MII rack mount to rack centerline is shorter on the late Mustang, installed late M with offset bushings that lowered the late M rack.

Is this an exact difference? I have the late Mustang PS rack and the rack looks like it needs to be raised, not lowered, to make the rack's ends parallel to the Mustang II lower suspension arms.

I'm concerned of course with bump steer - haven't had it checked yet due to other items needing attention first

Do you know the two measurements, i.e., the MII vs the late M rack's vertical offset?

Tom

J. T. Toad · #11 (**permalink**) 06-12-2003, 09:32 PM

I just finished mounting a Flaming River PS setup which shuts off at about 2K RPM. See DV comments in Classic Roadsters Forum regarding this and his successes. I have NOT driven this setup, but I think it should be good. Anyway, the only problem with it is the pump they use is a GM stage II pump, not easy to bracket up. Zoops makes one but it will only go in one location and it is not the cheapest thing around, but it does line it up perfectly, if you want pictures let me know.

FFR_2370 · #12 (**permalink**) 06-13-2003, 11:30 PM

Alot of endurance racers use an electric operated hydralic power steering pump that was used as an option in in 91-95 Toyota MR2's.

Jack21 · #13 (**permalink**) 06-14-2003, 01:44 PM

Tom Wells, Answered your e-mail. You're local. Look me up on CACC, come to VA some weekend, or an event and I'll show you the whole setup. Even let you drive it to see what it feels like. Going to DVSFIII next week, or the coockout tomorrow? I'll be there.

To answer your question though, the difference in vertical offset between the MII, and late ('79 - '86) rack is 1/2". MII is 2 1/2", and late M, 2". The offset bushing moves the late M rack down about 3/8". No bumpsteer.

There is a guy from work with a black 460 West Coast Cobra. It has what looks like a factory bracket for his PS pump.

Tom Wells · #14 (**permalink**) 06-14-2003, 04:33 PM

Hello Jack21,

I plan to be at Ripper's tomorrow and will drive to the Fling on Thursday. I hope to make it both ways this year

Thanks for the detailed reply!

Tom

Janusz · #15 (**permalink**) 07-09-2003, 10:27 PM

A couple of these posts indicate a vertical difference of 1/2" between the MII and late Mustang rack. I believe there is also a 1/2" horizontal difference (MII is 16" on center, late Mustang is 15 1/2" on center) in the mounting.

It would seem that offset bushings might accomodate the horizontal mount but not both, risking introducing bumpsteer. Has anyone done this conversion (MII to late model) and if so did you run into any problems? My MII rack has a 4 1/2 lock-to-lock, which seems slow, whereas the late racks are closer to 3 3/4. Any thoughts or suggestions?