Is anyone running E85 fuel?

snakesaway · #1 (**permalink**) 12-29-2015, 10:45 PM

Hi all,

Just curious if anyone is running E85 and if so have they had to make any modifications? I was going to try it recently but thought better of it because of the high amount of ethanol. I currently run a 302W with a mild cam and Holley 650 with vac secondaries. I currently use 97 octane.

Cheers

Andrew

120mm · #2 (**permalink**) 12-29-2015, 11:46 PM

You need the right kind of soft lines, and bigger jets, at a minimum.

There are US companies that specialize in converting carb to E85.

http://www.e85carbs.com/

Quick Fuel E85 Carburetors | Quick Fuel

Mark Sullen's E85 Carburetor Conversions

Fuel consumption is higher, but E85 engines make better power and run cooler than gasoline.

Once you convert a carb to E85, you need to convert it back, or replace the carb to burn normal gasoline. Failure to do so will cause your engine to run rich to the point that it could damage the engine.

Lots of paranoia about alcohol blends, but our family has been running blended fuel since 1980 or so in all of our farm fleet vehicles with zero fuel related problems. We even store our own fuel on site, and with a modicum of care, we've had no problems.

deano59 · #3 (**permalink**) 12-30-2015, 05:28 AM

zoks race carbs in qld does some nice e85 carbies

cheers dean

750hp · #4 (**permalink**) 12-30-2015, 05:36 AM

What are you wanting to achieve with the E85 conversion?

I don't see you getting any performance gain with the existing engine.
If you're attracted to the lower price per litre, as 120mm said you'll be burning more of it and you'll need to recoup the cost of the E85 compatible carb, pump, lines etc.

bobcowan · #5 (**permalink**) 12-30-2015, 08:04 AM

I use it with good results. One of the big issues is availability. Here in the US, it can be tough to find. Especially on the back roads and in small towns. To set the car up to run E-85 only could be a real problem around here.

You'll need about 20-25% more fuel. For a carb, that means bigger jets, squirters, etc. That pretty much means a dedicated carb. You might need a bigger pump to handle the volume. Because it burns a little slower, you also need less timing. People often mistake ethanol with methanol. Methanol is very caustic, and will eat most rubber components. Ethanol is not.

My car has EFI with a custom built Megasquirt MS3+ ECU from DIY Auto Tune. There's a switch under the dash to switch from one fuel map to another. The ECU also controls the ignition. On the track I uses a dedicate program, and that's an easy download from the laptop.

There are some distinct performance advantages. Because it's a colder intake charge, it tends to be denser. More air and fuel = more power. Even on the hottest days, I never worry about heat management. At high altitude, with air temps near 100* and track temps near 150*, my water temp might get over 200* in a 20 minute session. In city traffic, it never comes close to overheating.

Even with using 20% more fuel, it's still far cheaper than race fuel, and much easier to get here in CO. When I travel to UT, I have to carry all I might use.

joyridin' · #6 (**permalink**) 12-30-2015, 10:57 AM

On that engine, unless you are getting it real cheap, there wouldn't be a huge benefit. Bump the compression up to 13:1, drop in a huge cam, and you might see something worth the hassle of converting to E85.

Many guys on LS sites are running 11:1 - 12:1 compression with turbos. They are getting 800-1400 hp on E85. That makes it worth using.

dhs.buckley · #7 (**permalink**) 12-30-2015, 02:23 PM

Wouldnt of thought it was worth the cost for no gain, and i dont think 302 standard heads would cope with ethanol ie valves.

snakesaway · #8 (**permalink**) 12-30-2015, 03:38 PM

Thanks for you thoughts I basically just happened to pull into a United petrol station and saw the E85 fuel and noticed it was 107 octane and thought hmm I wonder if I'll notice the difference. Then thought about the higher amount of ethanol and higher octane and though maybe it might be better to do some investigation first. So really just a curiosity thing, more than anything else I certainly don't want to be changing carbies and fuel lines to run it its not worth it.

Cheers

Andrew

120mm · #9 (**permalink**) 12-31-2015, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhs.buckley

Wouldnt of thought it was worth the cost for no gain, and i dont think 302 standard heads would cope with ethanol ie valves.

Ethanol has no negative effects on the mechanical engine parts. The only thing it affects is soft lines that are the incorrect rubber compounds, and even then, most modern lines are the correct rubber compounds. Ethanol also attracts water, but the only issue we've had is on long term storage in vehicle fuel tanks. We use see through inline filters and always store tanks "full" to solve that problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakesaway

Thanks for you thoughts I basically just happened to pull into a United petrol station and saw the E85 fuel and noticed it was 107 octane and thought hmm I wonder if I'll notice the difference. Then thought about the higher amount of ethanol and higher octane and though maybe it might be better to do some investigation first. So really just a curiosity thing, more than anything else I certainly don't want to be changing carbies and fuel lines to run it its not worth it.

Cheers

Andrew

Change carbs, yes. But fuel lines are an overrated problem. Chances are, your fuel lines are ethanol tolerant, and if they are not, it's worth changing them anyway.

120mm · #10 (**permalink**) 12-31-2015, 01:23 AM

The great thing about E85 where I am from (Midwest US) is that the major grocer's chain (Hy-Vee) has E85 at all its locations, for cheap enough that it comes out a wash, price wise, with increased consumption figured in.

CobraV8 · #11 (**permalink**) 12-31-2015, 02:27 AM

As others already stated it won't harm anything, tested it for more than 100.000 miles in two of my daily drivers. No special lines, filters or other parts whatsoever.

Advantage: Octane rating of 104 to 107 (ROZ), price over race gas is ridiculously low.

Disadvantage: availability

mikeinatlanta · #12 (**permalink**) 12-31-2015, 08:50 AM

I set my car up to run E85 and E100 to be exempted from emissions laws. As an alternative fuel vehicle, I'll even be allowed to use the carpool lanes.

All I need to do to switch back and forth is upload a different program in the EMS.

lovehamr · #13 (**permalink**) 12-31-2015, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeinatlanta

I set my car up to run E85 and E100 to be exempted from emissions laws. As an alternative fuel vehicle, I'll even be allowed to use the carpool lanes.

All I need to do to switch back and forth is upload a different program in the EMS.

There's someone using their head right there!

Paintwerks · #14 (**permalink**) 12-31-2015, 02:21 PM

Only issue I've heard with E85 is the variation in consistency btween batches and locations. On a highly tuned motor you do not want knocking of any kind!

dave295 · #15 (**permalink**) 12-31-2015, 04:16 PM

You could ask your local VW dealership for advice on emissions. They've got some great software for emissions.
It must be good, everyone's talking about it.

120mm · #16 (**permalink**) 01-01-2016, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobraV8

As others already stated it won't harm anything, tested it for more than 100.000 miles in two of my daily drivers. No special lines, filters or other parts whatsoever.

Advantage: Octane rating of 104 to 107 (ROZ), price over race gas is ridiculously low.

Disadvantage: availability

Hey, another Bavarian! If you are actually in Bavaria, we should meet and exchange info.