Strut rods and alignment

[MaSnaka]

I have the Mustang II front suspension and still using strut rods. I recently replaced the strut rod bushings with polyurethane. My question is this...are the strut rods used in setting the alignment and tightened accordingly? or are they supposed to be torqued to a certain spec regardless of alignment?

I have had to replace my upper A-arms and ball joints recently so an alignment is in the very near future anyway. I don't want to be messing with them after the alignment is set.

Thanks,
John

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Hi,
They are just braces with no adjustment. They work OK but you can replace the lower A arm with a wider A arm that eliminates the strut rod, some welding required and end up with less binding in suspension travel.
Perry.

[Wisconsin_Snake]

How much benefit does switching the lower a-arms really provide?
I currently have the MII a-arms, I'm going to have to replace the lower ball joint on mine. Is it worth the money?
Will I notice a difference?

[rbgray1]

All,

I replaced my strut arms with Heidts tubular A-Arms upper and lower. The strut rods work "OK" but are there to simply limit lateral ball joint movement. They were a very inexpensive way for Ford to originally design and build a very low cost Independent front suspension for very inexpensive cars.

The problem with the strut arms is they dramatically restrict vertical suspension articulation due to the pivot point of the strut arm being a rubber bushing. For vertical suspension movement, the bushing is compressed on the top or bottom depending on the suspension moving up or down. This is LESS than ideal as your asking a bushing (either rubber or polyurethane to provide articulation based on compression of one side of the bushing. Due to age of bushing, compress-ability, etc...the strut rods will create slight variances in lower ball joint location during suspension travel.

The new Heidts tubulars are rock solid, articulate smoothly on a 5/8 shaft and steel lined polyurethane bushings and only rotate around this axis with absolutely NO DEPENDANCE on compression of a strut rod bushing.

I just completed this on my car about two weeks ago and it's fairly straightforward, requires some welding and can typically be handled in a day or so. I took a little extra time as I wanted to take before and after measurements of the stock OEM Ford and Heidts arms to ensure suspension geometry stayed the same with the new arms (see measurements in previous posts).

It was a little simpler for me since I have my frame stripped down and the engine/trans removed, but this could still be accomplished on a completed car, just slightly more difficult as some of the welding access is on the front cross member under or adjacent to your oil pan.

[MaSnaka]

Thanks RB,
Your car looks good!
At present I am just trying to get back on the road. Replacing the upper a arms was not in my plan but necessary due to the fact no ball joints exist that could replace the ones I had. I get that the strut rods are not optimal but for now they will do. I'll leave a little meat on the bone for future upgrades.

BTW- the torque specs I was looking for are 70-80 foot pounds strut rod to frame bushing nut. Poly or rubber.

John

[C5GTO]

I replaced the standard MII strut rods with these when I built my car.





Two advantages:
- pivot on both ends so less restrictive
- made from aluminum so less unsprung weight

They are adjustable but I've never adjusted them or found the need to. The only downside I've observed is that tire width and inside offset may be limited due to tires hitting the strut rod on a full lock turn. This limitation will exist for any strut rod that runs straight. I do have some rubber marks on my strut rods from tire rubbing but it's not been a real issue in 20+ years of use.

In my opinion, going with something like this is probably good enough. Unless of course, you want to get into a frame alteration type project to eliminate the strut rods. My motto is don't let the pursuit of the perfect be the enemy of the good enough.

[rbgray1]

C5GTO,

Nice touch with the adjustable Heim joint strut rods.

Just so MaSnaka knows, welding on the 1" tubular sleeves that heidts ships with their lower tubular and two 3/16 steel plate gussets to convert to tubular lower A-Arms is not a big deal.

As I mentioned previously in a post, I just took a little longer to do this because I wanted to make absolutely sure that the before and after suspension geometry would be correct. Doing this and the subsequent mock up of the parts on and off the car probably cost me a days work just to ensure a good install, especially based on Redhawk's experience with the process.

What I found geometry wise I posted in a previous thread, and overall found the install to be extremely straight forward. One thing to note is that the conversion costs is appox...

Heidts Upper and lower tubular A-Arms with Ball joints etc.
Upper $300
Lower $420
QA1 375lb Coil Overs with single adjustable shocks $400

I can dig up all the actual part numbers and prices if anyone needs them. All of these items can be ordered through Summit, but the QA1 and Heidts stuff is dropped ship from the manufacturer. I took advantage of Summit's lower cost and their rebate program(earned about $120 in free good from Summit) and ordered from Summit accordingly. Only took 3-4 business days for items to arrive.

Overall, this was a very simple upgrade and one that I'm happy I did and would do again in a minute knowing what I learned through the process.

Either way, your strut rod swap is a good option A or B for MaSnaka, depending on budget and final outcome expectations.

I just felt that since I am so deep into a complete rebuild and update of my car, I didn't want to do anything less than full suspension and brake upgrades to my car as I won't be doing this again in my lifetime. Not that budget isn't an issue, I just wanted to do this while the car is dismantled and the work is easier to perform.

[rbgray1]

One last Item I forgot to mention:

The most important things that I considered during all of my suspension upgrades was:

1. Complete ride height adjust ability of both Front and Rear. This was probably the most critical factor for me.

2. Complete shock rebound/compression adjustability of both front and rear. QA1 shocks took care of this.

3. Simple spring adjustments to stiffer or softer springs. Each pair (front and rear) cost about $80 if I want to order stiffer springs from QA1.

4. Get rid of the coil bind on the front springs from the original CR Set-up. The way they engineered the front originally and called for cut down stock Ford springs (either Pinto or M2) caused some coil bind on the inner portion of the front springs. I fixed this during my alteration and re-welding of the front shock towers. Now the front shocks and springs travel in a very minimized arc from the original set-up and my front coil bind problem is gone.

[RedHawk]

Originally Posted by rbgray1

One last Item I forgot to mention:

The most important things that I considered during all of my suspension upgrades was:

1. Complete ride height adjust ability of both Front and Rear. This was probably the most critical factor for me.

2. Complete shock rebound/compression adjustability of both front and rear. QA1 shocks took care of this.

3. Simple spring adjustments to stiffer or softer springs. Each pair (front and rear) cost about $80 if I want to order stiffer springs from QA1.

4. Get rid of the coil bind on the front springs from the original CR Set-up. The way they engineered the front originally and called for cut down stock Ford springs (either Pinto or M2) caused some coil bind on the inner portion of the front springs. I fixed this during my alteration and re-welding of the front shock towers. Now the front shocks and springs travel in a very minimized arc from the original set-up and my front coil bind problem is gone.

Love the pictures. Gives me some ideas.

[SnakeDoc]

RBgray1,

Wow does you suspension look spectacular.

Can you tell me what are the Heidt part numbers?

And how much welding does it require and where at?

I have the M11 installed and have been told that there were no tubular setups that worked. Great to see that there are some that actually work!

[rbgray1]

SnakeDoc,

I'm in Charlotte on business until Monday, actually attending a Collision Shop event at the garage area of Charlotte Motor Speedway. Several of us took rides around the track today in the Nsacar driving experience.....woooppeee.... Awesome .

Anyway, I will pull my file when I get back home and list the parts for the front end and rear end suspension that I ordered products from QA1, Heidts, and Wilwood. I'm pretty happy how everything is coming out so far.....Suspension should be great when complete and very adjustable.

Regarding welding on the front end...not very serious for anyone that knows how to Mig or Tig. I use Mig for this as most of the welding is with 3/16 Cold Rolled Steel or CRS. The welding for the lower A-arms involves welding in two 1" OD/ 5/8" ID sleeves to the current CR crossmember on each side where the lower A-arm bolt runs through the crossmember and then adding 3/16" CRS gusset plates and welding to the rear sleeve on the crossmember to support it from lateral of horizontal movement. Very simple and straight forward, just make sure it's welded strong with good penetration to the existing crossmember and shock tower.

Also, the tall shock mounts need to be cut off the shock towers, shortened to approximately 1/2 to 3/4" tall and the QA1 coil overs fit perfectly and rewelded the the shock towers. Also very simple and straight forward.

If you have access to a welder and can weld fairly well, you can easily do this yourself. If your skeptical or can't weld, have someone do this for you. I'm overstating the obvious that this is a MAJOR safety issue as this is a key component of the car, both handling and safety.

If you want some guidance in how to do this, send me your contact info on a private message and I'd be happy to talk you through the steps.

I can't say enough that this needs to be done correctly otherwise you may get into suspension geometry issues, coil spring bind issues or safety issues.

[SnakeDoc]

Thanks RBgray1,

Hope your trip goes well.

Yes I do have a welder and certainly am open to any and all help.

Probably the place to start is first get the Heidts parts so I know what I am looking at.

So when you get some time ( no rush) please send me those numbers

Thank you!

[MaSnaka]

Snake,
I recently purchased the upper control arms directly from Heidts. They do not come finished so I asked that they ship them unassembled. No problem. I had them powdercoated then assembled with the aid of my friend who has a beefy 100 ton press. The bushings can be worked into position with some deburring and greese, a soft blow hammer and vise with some creative engineering. The ball joints press in and that is where the 100 ton press became useful. Only got it up to 15-20 tons though. The C-Clamp type press kit you get from Auto Zone will not get it done.

Go to their website and search Mustang II. You should find all the info you need.

Upper Control Arms- CA-101
$300
Powdercoating
$100

I did not replace my existing tubular lower control arms with strut rods.

John

[SnakeDoc]

Thank you John!