Fick Toombs- Ford FE /Bad experience

[CobraCammer]

Hello All,

I follow a lot of threads on here and actually have turned to this forum a few times in doing research on Parts to use or projects currently underway in the area of Ford FE's. I wanted to put up this thread as a cautionary tale for those who may be looking for FE parts.

I had the unfortunate experience of trying to do business with Rick Toombs out of Friendsville TN on a Timing Chain/Gear set on a 427 SOHC engine. In reading through a few different forums, there was nothing but the nicest and most professional things said about Mr. Toombs. Unfortunately that was not what I got to experience.

It all began when I found an advertisement for some SOHC Cammer parts that Mr. Toombs was selling. I emailed him asking him if the Timing Gear/Chain set he has posted (with picture) was still available. I was looking for a set that has the larger diameter pin on both the top chain as well as the lower chain. He called me back within 10 minutes of my email to tell me that he still had it and its still for sale. He stated that he got them from Keith Craft, and believes them to be a Bill Coon timing set. Now I wanted to make sure I was getting the right part, so I asked Mr. Toombs on the phone, "The set you have in the picture will be the set I am receiving correct?" to which Mr. Toombs said, "I only have one set, and that's the set in the picture." He then went on to tell me that if I am not happy with the parts that I can send them back to him and he will just give me a refund.

Now to clarify, and as I would find out much later into this ordeal, the timing set he has pictured is a Paul Munroe double roller set with the larger diameter pin chains and gears made from a harder steel (how it was explained to me when I spoke to Mr. Munroe on the phone from Australia). I know this because when things with Mr. Toombs started to take a turn for the worse, I kept searching Forums until I found Old-Old threads where Mr,. Toombs was indeed selling Paul Munroe's stock. What started this whole problem was that Mr. Toombs used a photo of the Paul Munroe set to sell off a stock set.

After agreeing to send Mr Toombs $600.00 for the timing set (all the time being told that the one being shipped to me is the one in the photo), I sent a check to Mr. Toombs in TN. (He would only accept a check as he said he does not know how to use paypal).
Check arrives to Mr. Toombs and he takes it to his bank..... 1st Issue.... The check book is in my wifes name. Since in the year 2014, almost no one takes personal checks anymore, we have had the same check book for 10 years... hence the address on the check book has our address from 10 years ago. Mr. Toombs now tells me since the address on the check does not match the address I mailed it to him from, his bank will put an extended hold on the funds for 10 days. OK.... at this point I am telling myself, :Everyone has nice things to say about Mr. Toombs, and I am getting a really good timing set for the $ , so I will try and be patient."

2nd problem..... After 10 Days, I ask Mr. Toombs via email (and I kept every email as a safety measure), I asked him " I just want to be completely sure, that the timing set You have listed.... the timing set in the picture is the set I am receiving." Again Mr. Toombs assures me it is and in that same email mentions again that if I'm not happy wth the parts, that I can just send them back for a refund. Later that day, Mr. Toombs made it to the post office to mail out the timing set. I get the USPS tracing # from him via email. As its still kind of bothering me, I email him again. In this email, I actually apologize to him for bringing it up again, but tell him that the timing set he has pictured in his add is a Paul Munroe timing set. (After speaking with Paul Munroe on the phone, learned that he is the only one making a larger diameter pin upper chain)....

Mr. Toombs then emails me back telling me that he had taken a pictures of the set right before he put them in the flatrate box at the post office and that they are attached to the email.......

The picture he sent me was of an old stock set. Large pin diameter upper chain... and old forged gears.... Nothing at all what was shown in the picture!

I immediately email he back (withine 1 minute of him sending me the photo) and explain to him that I am a little upset that I asked 3 separate times to make sure that the timing set being sold to me was the one pictured in the ad. and on all three occasions, I was told it was. I explained to him at that time that I would just not accept the package and let it return to sender and will await my refund....

Now the real fun began..... package was rejected at my front door and was returned to sender. Post office lady told me that it would use the same tracking # on the way back to sender so we can keep tabs on the return....

Package gets lost on its way back. I spend hours on the phone explaining the situation and they continue to tell me that the shipper needs to contact them in order to get a search under way. I email Mr. Toombs... no reply.... I email Mr. Toombs again.... No reply. I call Mr. Toombs and leave a message explaining that they need to speak with him so they can track the package down and get it back on its way back.... No answer and no call back.

At this point I am almost sick to my stomach as I am not out $600.00 and out the parts... and this man who everyone said nice things about seems to just be blatantly ignoring me.

Over the next 3 weeks, I continue to call the Post office headquarters, then the Post office consumer affairs (all during my lunch breaks at work). Long story short, I manage to track down the package after literally 9 to 10 hours in total of phone calls and emails. Package is now back on the tracking system and at Mr. Toombs place back in Friendsville TN. The next morning, I check the tracking system and the package was not delivered and is now awaiting pickup at the post office...... Now after almost a month of footwork getting this package back to Mr. Toombs, I was not about to have it lost in the mail system again. So I call him and leave a message telling him its there and he just needs to go to the Post office and get it.... No response. I call again a few hours later... no response. I get my family member to call (thinking maybe he is trying to avoid me).... He picks right up... "Hello?"

This seemed to anger him a little, because within a day or 2, he writes me back a scathing email that I don't need to trick him by having other people call him.... and that I am the scam artist... and that he will NOT take back the package nor give me back my money. He stated that it took too long for them to get back to him and that not even sears would give me a refund... and that the package is sitting at the post office and I can deal with them!!!!!! (Now in the multiple emails, there was no mention of a time limit for getting my $$ back.... none at all)

Im sorry, Im the scam artist??? Me? Mr. toombs has $600.00 of my hard earned money as well as the parts that I works on getting back to him.

I call the post office and a very nice lady answers.... I explain it to her and she immediately knows what I'm taking about. She goes on to explain that he comes in almost daily to get his mail or mail stuff out. He needed to sign for the return package and refused to do so. She explained to him that he cant leave it there... they wont hold it and that he had to sign for it and take it.... and she told me that he begrudgingly too the package and signed for it. She even emailed me a copy of the proof of his signature signing for the package.

So I email Mr. Toombs back and tell him that I just spoke with the post office.... I don't mind shipping the package back to myself at my own expense (I will just chalk this up to another bad decision that my wife can hold against me) but they say you took the package home with you already. I even attach a copy of the proof the post office sent me showing he signed for it.

He emails me back and says he doesn't have it and I need to just deal with the post office. At this point, I explain to him that I can no longer go back and forth with him and that I will have to take him to small claims court if he does not either give me back a refund or at the very least take the parts back to the post office (the lady at the post office felt so bad for me that she said she would box everything up, put a label on it and call me to ask for my credit card to charge me to ship it back since Mr. Toombs was being so difficult).

I just get a reply back that If I go to small claims court... "its a two way street"....... What? Am I missing something?

Long LONG story .... My advise is not to do business with Rick Toombs EVER.

[Grubby]

Ouch. I hope you get your money or at least parts.

With your email chain and notes of phone calls, how could you lose?

John

[rodneym]

So sorry to hear that, CobraCammer. So frustrating.
What is it about those Cammer parts/people that makes things so difficult?

[redmt]

Bad deal by way of US Mail = Mail Fraud. See what the Post Master has to say.

[GT350Mike]

Not trying to play Devil's advocate here but there are always two sides to the story. I've known Rick for about two years and last year he built my 427 SO for my Cobra and I couldn't be happier. He's done a lot of business with people all over and you're the first one I've heard who wasn't satisfied. Would I bet on Rick winning a Mr. Congeniality contest? No, but based on my experience and the people I talked to before he built my engine, he's as fair and honest as they come and I wouldn't blink an eye to recommend him for anything relating to Ford engines.

[Texasdoc]

Small claims court is useless. I took someone there - he didn't show up. Although the judge ruled in my favor by default, the small claims court had no authority to MAKE him pay. They can decide who is right and who is wrong, but no power to back it up.

Even though I was awarded judgement, I never got any money and never got my part back. Nothing happened to him at all.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by Texasdoc

Small claims court is useless. I took someone there - he didn't show up. Although the judge ruled in my favor by default, the small claims court had no authority to MAKE him pay. They can decide who is right and who is wrong, but no power to back it up.

Even though I was awarded judgement, I never got any money and never got my part back. Nothing happened to him at all.

I had the same problem in Ohio. Guy didn't show, I won. I had to take him back 3 more times for the money. I won every time, but he never paid.

I used the Better Business Bureau also. Another waste of time.

The only thing you can hope for is posting on sites like this and embarrass him into giving you your money back.

[redmt]

If you win in court it gives you the right to file a lien. You have so many years to collect on the lien. It also give you the rights to explain EXACTLY what happened. Sometimes bad press will change his mind a bit.

[CobraCammer]

Thanks everyone. I don't know what it is about the cammer stuff. Luckily I was trying to buy these chains and gears because I wanted the Paul Munroe ones (Stronger) and that's what was in his ad. I already have all the parts to assemble and will get this cammer up and running within the next few months. Just sucks that people do this to you. Yes, I fully admit I may have been annoying asking him 3 or 4 times about "The ones pictured are the ones Im getting?", but it does not give you the right to lie, ignore and then chastise me........ Oh, wait, silly me taking about good business deals, justice and respect.

:0)

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by redmt

If you win in court it gives you the right to file a lien. You have so many years to collect on the lien. It also give you the rights to explain EXACTLY what happened. Sometimes bad press will change his mind a bit.

File a lien against what? His business? If you don't get paid for work done on a car in Ohio, you can file a Mechanics Lien, but they only have to pay when they sell the car to get the title. If they take it to a scrap yard, the lien is worthless.

[legenmetals]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

I had the same problem in Ohio. Guy didn't show, I won. I had to take him back 3 more times for the money. I won every time, but he never paid.

I used the Better Business Bureau also. Another waste of time.

The only thing you can hope for is posting on sites like this and embarrass him into giving you your money back.

I was on the internet last night looking for a set of chains and gears. I PM'ed a guy on the FE forum selling what looks to be Bill Coon Hardware with a 419 area code (Ohio). I haven't heard back yet.

Robert Pond told me all the chains available are stronger than Fords original. Paul Munros product is the strongest according to Jay Brown but will not interchange with Bill Coons. I did read about some gears that were hobbed with the teeth apexing to a point at the top of the teeth. Not sure that I like that. Thanks for the heads up.

[mhacars]

I had a nightmare of a problem with Jim Barillaro in Knoxville who built me a motor that I had to have completely redone by Ernie Elliott. Barillaro is another guy that I would not walk but rather run away from. You can read what I went through in the GT50 build forum on this site.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by redmt

If you win in court it gives you the right to file a lien. You have so many years to collect on the lien. It also give you the rights to explain EXACTLY what happened. Sometimes bad press will change his mind a bit.

This^ and using the police to pull the money from his till while his business is open or garnish his paycheck. You could also place a lien agains his house if he has one. My suspicion is he does not. There are some PI's who can get banking information and pull the money directly from his bank accounts.

Ed

[redmt]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

File a lien against what? His business? If you don't get paid for work done on a car in Ohio, you can file a Mechanics Lien, but they only have to pay when they sell the car to get the title. If they take it to a scrap yard, the lien is worthless.

I don't know about the state he's in but in the Peoples Republic of California you can file a lien against the guy himself then if he goes to sell something like a house,,,, the lien comes up as unpaid. Then you drag your feet as long as he did to sign off on it. I filed a lien against a guy for a court case he lost on owing me over 10k. The guy eventually went tits up and filed bankruptcy. I was so far down the line on monies he owed that I never saw a cent but I still get to call him a dead beat, low rent SOB.

[Grubby]

I won in small claims many years ago and the guy told me to piss off. I got the lien on his house and a few years later when he wanted to sell it he called me in a panic. I was in no rush to release the lien.

I did get paid after about 3 years.

John

[joyridin']

Interesting. I will have to check into it a little better if I ever have a small claims case again. I just pay with a credit card now. Saves all this hassle.

[750hp]

Sorry to hear of the drama. You might want to see if you can change your thread title to "Rick" not "Fick", as this info might not show up for people searching by his name.
(I bet you're Fickin furious...!)

[CobraCammer]

I wasn't able to correct to "Rick Toombs" unfortunately. I saw the error as soon as I posted it. Thank you though.