EightStack Fuel Injection Ignition Table

PaulProe · #1 (**permalink**) 06-01-2016, 08:36 PM

Does anyone have an EightStack ignition table they are willing to share?

I have my system up and running and have had the base dyno tune applied. Looking to tweak the ignition table and have some questions.

1) shouldn't the ignition timing be essentially the same as with a carbureted system? The car/motor ran well with carburetors using a 14 initial, 38 total, all in at 3000rpm.

2) looking at my new ignition table, it is "smoothed" so at 100% throttle, at 3000rpm, timing is 33.5 degrees and it doesn't reach 38 till 6000. Shouldn't it be some sort of curve between 1000 and 3000 from initial timing to 38 and then 38 all the way across from there?

My setup is an FE with EightStack and Performance Electronics ECU

Thanks

Paul

Dimis · #2 (**permalink**) 06-01-2016, 09:29 PM

Paul,

Sorry I don't have anything to share, nor answers to your questions, but if you could be so kind to share some pics and your experiences with the Eightstack system, I'd be very interested and appreciative. IMHO Nothing looks better than an eight stack/weber system.

What ECU did you go with? How did you set up the TPS? how have you found it so far? What intake did you have before / or is it a fresh build? and about a zillion other questions I'll refrain from asking at the moment.

With thanks!

fordracing65 · #3 (**permalink**) 06-01-2016, 10:03 PM

If it's a so called self learning system. Good luck.

blykins · #4 (**permalink**) 06-02-2016, 05:47 AM

Nothing at all wrong with a self-learning system, if that's what it is. I have several engines out there with FAST EZ self-learning EFI systems and they work perfectly.

To answer the OP's questions, I'm not the EFI expert by any means, but your timing curve should stay essentially the same as a carb setup. Total timing at 6000 rpm isn't doing any good at all...

Did you try calling the manufacturer?

Dwight · #5 (**permalink**) 06-02-2016, 07:48 PM

I talked to someone at Performance Electronics | Home a few years ago about my Eight Stack system.

They have installed several Eight Stack systems in different cars.

Dwight

PaulProe · #6 (**permalink**) 06-02-2016, 09:14 PM

Using a distributor, the timing curve is relatively simplistic, going to 38degrees (or whatever max is) at 3000 rpm. Changing springs changes how fast it comes in and to what degree.

A timing table offers 625 different resolution points to tweak the timing. I was hoping there was someone else out there with an EightStack FE that would share his table, to help cut down my workload on getting it setup.

I've posted a copy of my timing table which is ultra conservative. I've also posted pictures of the system. It runs great, looks great and starts like a dream. I enjoyed my Webers, but this just takes all the effort out of that style system.

The ECU is a Performance Electronics PE3. It is self learning system and I have progressed far enough in tuning that it is doing it's thing but hasn't made any major changes. In touch with the manufacturer and the initial tune was done by them. I am just tweaking.

If you want something that runs great, gets good gas mileage and draws a lot of looks, EightStack and Performance Electronics is highly recommended. I took a few extra pains to hide the wiring so to the typical looker, it just looks like a set of Webers.

Dimis, ask away. I am happy to share my experiences. I started with a running Weber 48IDA system (Blue Thunder manifold with vacuum plenum), took the Webers off and put on the EightStack units. TPS is mounted on the passenger rear carb. Added MAP sensor, two O2 sensors, Barometer sensor, MSD ProBillet distributor as a sync method, Idle Air Control to the vacuum manifold. Lot of work but well worth it. You can't believe how well it runs and starts. 16.5 mpg and I haven't tweaked the timing yet! And the Torque curve is almost flat, starting at 2200 all the way to 5500. It pulled well before, now it really gets with it.

Talk to Dale Schaller at EightStack about putting one on yours.

Paul

Gaz64 · #7 (**permalink**) 06-02-2016, 10:56 PM

Hi Paul,

Certainly has the look of 4 IDA Webers.

Are the injectors in the middle where the Weber emulsion tube/main jet/air corrector would normally be?

Are the "mixture screws" on the outside for bypass air only, to balance the barrels at idle/lowspeed?

Gary

Dwight · #8 (**permalink**) 06-03-2016, 06:01 AM

It is my understanding that Dale sold the Eight Stack system to Borla.

I had one of the early Dynaformance system and Dale helped me a lot with it. Great guy.

Dwight

ICCARS · #9 (**permalink**) 06-03-2016, 06:59 AM

Hi Paul,

I have some 8 stack Motec maps if you are interested - just need to download the Motec Manager Version 3.4 to read it and transpose the information to your Performance Electronics ECU.
PM me your email address if you want me to send you some files - I have an 8 stack and the Morrison cross over 8 stack Maps.
Cheers
Wil

PaulProe · #10 (**permalink**) 06-03-2016, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaz64

. . . Are the injectors in the middle where the Weber emulsion tube/main jet/air corrector would normally be?

Are the "mixture screws" on the outside for bypass air only, to balance the barrels at idle/lowspeed?
. . .

The injectors are buried inside the wells of the carb body. The "mixture screws" on the outside are functional, they are used as air bleeds to balance the barrels. Linkage is pure Weber.

PaulProe · #11 (**permalink**) 06-03-2016, 07:26 PM

Dynatech went into receivership and the new owner kept it for about a year and then sold to Borla. Dale was part of the package and now works for Borla. Great guy

The early packages had some issues but with persistence, they can be made to run and pretty well, too.

Paul

olddog · #12 (**permalink**) 06-05-2016, 01:40 PM

Paul,

From what I gathered from the chart you posted the left side or Y axis is the throttle position sensor. I think I have read in the past that these systems are an Alpha "N" strategy, if so that would make sense. More modern Ford systems use load for the Y axis.

The table looks to me to not have enough timing in most areas. Are you sure there are not other schemes in the strategy that adds to and subtract from this table? If there are you need to understand them before changing this table.

olddog · #13 (**permalink**) 06-05-2016, 01:52 PM

Paul,

From what I gathered from the chart you posted the left side or Y axis is the throttle position sensor. I think I have read in the past that these systems are an Alpha "N" strategy, if so that would make sense. More modern Ford systems use load for the Y axis.

The table looks to me to not have enough timing in most areas. Are you sure there are not other schemes in the strategy that adds to and subtract from this table? If there are you need to understand them before changing this table.

FUNFER2 · #14 (**permalink**) 06-05-2016, 03:23 PM

Just wish I could afford what you're needing the cable for !

PaulProe · #15 (**permalink**) 06-05-2016, 06:52 PM

Thanks for the comments guys.

The system does run as Alpha-N but also includes MAP Compensation. On the ignition side of things, although it is running using the TPS position as a load indicator, it is very similar to SpeedDensity systems that use MAP to gauge engine load. Although referring to two different sensors, the reference is almost identical.

I agree the table doesn't have enough timing in it, the tuner intentionally set it on the conservative side. I am beginning to tweak that and am still hoping there's an EightStack FE guy out there who will share his table. I know it won't import into my system but it will give me a general idea of the timing curve that he uses

Thanks

Paul

olddog · #16 (**permalink**) 07-23-2016, 04:09 PM

Paul

Just in case you didn't see this thread, you may want to check this out.

8 Stack EFI New ECU Option Offer

PaulProe · #17 (**permalink**) 07-23-2016, 07:52 PM

OldDog
Saw and read your post and the comments on the site. Thanks, but no, thanks. I am happy with my Performance Electronics ECU.

The setup and system can get expensive and also labor intensive. As much as I enjoy tinkering with the system, not really into tearing it all down and starting over so a commercial entity can learn and then resell. What he is offering might be a great deal for someone who is having issues with a system, but if it ain't broke . . .

Appreciate your thoughts, though.

Paul

mikeinatlanta · #18 (**permalink**) 07-23-2016, 08:11 PM

I'm here to help.

FUNFER2 · #19 (**permalink**) 07-23-2016, 09:05 PM

lol,....that's so awesome !

olddog · #20 (**permalink**) 07-24-2016, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulProe

OldDog
Saw and read your post and the comments on the site. Thanks, but no, thanks. I am happy with my Performance Electronics ECU.

The setup and system can get expensive and also labor intensive. As much as I enjoy tinkering with the system, not really into tearing it all down and starting over so a commercial entity can learn and then resell. What he is offering might be a great deal for someone who is having issues with a system, but if it ain't broke . . .

Appreciate your thoughts, though.

Paul

Paul

I understand. It sounds like you have your system pretty well sorted out. He really isn't a big commercial entity though. He's a fairly young man, has a day job, and this is just a hobby to him. I believe he may have the solution to many problems that hot rod enthusiasts are fighting. I was just trying to get the two parties together, as I like to see win win deals succeed.

Rick