I am probably opening a can of worms here

[stimpy]

But I am interested in forum feedback on the current market for Kirkhams.

Now I know a lot of you already have cars, and that, human nature being what it is, are going to be somewhat protective of the idea of value.

That aside, it seems reasonable to suggest that the market price of these cars has been affected by the state of the economy in general. Pricetrends for many collector cars seem to have been substantially lower in many recent auctions.

I see quite a few of the most "common" cars (427 SC with a Keithcraft type motor) for sale near or above 6 figures and , while the replacement cost (new) might still be at or near these levels there seems to be virtually zero interest on the part of buyers at these prices.

Cars that are offered on EBAY seem to suggest that there are interested buyers of (used, sorted out) vehicles in the 60K to 65K range with some consistency.

Using the recent auction of a virtually new SC at Monterey as a guide,
it would seem to suggest that mid 60's is where the market will actually clear at this point. 75K less 5K for the stainless frame and 15K for a supercharged aluminum build plus or minus a couple of K for the Auction fees seems to suggest ~60K is the right number for a more plain vanilla car.

Now I know doing these kinds of evaluations gets hard with anything as unique (each one) as a Kirkham where transactions are infrequent at best so take my comments with (of coourse) a grain of salt.

the point of the post is: what do you guys think would be a fair price to buyers and sellers TODAY if you were in the market as a buyer?

Thanks in advance, please don't flame me.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by stimpy

Cars that are offered on EBAY seem to suggest that there are interested buyers of (used, sorted out) vehicles in the 60K to 65K range with some consistency.

Yes, I think you're correct. There's is definitely interest for Kirkham at $60-$65K on eBay, but I haven't see one sell on eBay for that amount yet. If you've seen one sell on eBay for that amount, could you please post it here. There's one for sale right now on eBay with bidding right around $59K+, but the car isn't painted a particularly good color combo (green/gold/tan) IMHO.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SHELB...US_Cars_Trucks

Considering a roller Kirkham in file finish is $57,000, a fully sorted & finished “plain vanilla” Kirkham with a KC 482 at $60,000 is a fantastic deal. Please pass along any deals that you find and pass on to the general Club Cobra community.

Ultimately, I feel sorry for the Kirkhams because that can’t be selling many new rollers with the resale market at $60,000, which is not too far off the market for an ERA and/or SPF.

My comment about the stainless steel frame is that I would prefer the standard steel frame, so the stainless steel frame adds no value for me.

[patrickt]

Stimpy, I tend to agree with Rod. Now is a good time to pick up any Cobra; prices are down. That said, the Kirkham is at the top (along with the aluminum Shelby) price-wise. If you have the money, then you might want to place a discrete WTB add asking for Kirkhams, or maybe aluminum Shelbys, and handle it all through email and PMs. There was recently a bad experience where someone "with cash in hand" was trying to find an ERA and sort of placed a WTB via an open thread. That's not the way to do it.

[RodKnock]

Just a quick perusal of Cobra Country showed 4 Kirkham listings, scrolling very far down the list, with three marked sold:

KMP 529 Asking price $97,500. Listed March 2010, sold April 2010.
KMP ??? Asking price $100,000. Listed January 2010, not sold.
KMP 357 Asking price $77,500. Listed November 2009, sold January 2010.
KMP 379 Asking price $86,675. Listed October 2009, sold November 2009.

Listed on Club Cobra:

KMP 492 Asking price not available. Listed July 2010.
http://clubcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105727
KMP 488 Asking price $115,000. Listed May 2010.
http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds...uct/2957/cat/2
KMP 218 (FIA) Asking price $75,000. Listed June 2010.
http://www.myhotcars.com/inventory/?...218XXXXXXXXXXX

Also IMHO, one Kirkham auctioned at no reserve for $75,000, plus a buyer’s commission of 10% or $82,500, does not make a market. I think you would be hard-pressed to find a 427 Kirkham for $60,000-65,000, but again, let us know when you do.

[mrmustang]

Current KMP values seem to be leveling off, a low of $71,900 to a high of over $120,000 in the last 12 months. Most are in the $75,000-$95,000 range depending on the drivetrain and options installed. Quick sales, a few, but those cars are in exceptional condition........


Bill S.

[Jamo]

Stimpy, given that the above was your first post, are you looking to buy a Kirkham or are you in the business?

[stimpy]

Having re-read my post I realize I was not clear in my question.

I am looking to try to get an idea on "base" value for the car, without stainless on the frame, and without a 15K+ 600HP Keithcraft-type motor.

I don't doubt for a second that that kind of performance would/should add up to a car near 100K.

I have not seen (and didn't mean to suggest) any sellers into the 60Kish bid range on Ebay, although I did see a brushed finish car (in Utah, I think) draw a low 60's bid with no sale that was not re-listed.

That makes me think maybe they came to a deal in that neighborhood off-line.

As for the Moneterey car, I know RM took 8K from the buyer. I am just trying to back in to what value would be even splitting that 4K each way. The seller had to pay a listing fee as well and (though RM won't tell you specifically what it is) also pay a sellers commission that is around 3% on other sales I have seen them handle.

Again I am not saying I have seen cars at 60-65K, or that I SHOULD see them there.

I am just looking at the last sale in a visible auction of a new car with AT LEAST 25K in upgrades off the base example. The supercharger alone was 6K as a part.

Taking 75K, adding 4K, and ignoring the sellers listing fees (2K and possible commision (2K) and then subtracting only 20K for the engine upgrades (just to be conservative) gets me to 58K. Again, for a virtually NEW car.

I agree the idea of a "market" is tricky for anything as unusual as these cars are, but again I am just trying to work out a rough idea.

Thanks again for the input.

[stimpy]

But I have been bitten by the aluminum bug.


I am finishing construction on a garage as we speak (or text) and the wife has already been informed that this is no longer a matter for discussion.

I would prefer a more driver and fuel friendly example (289 is fine, stock big block as long as it runs cool is OK too) so that is why I am trying to get an idea of the "base" value of them.

[RodKnock]

This isn't you Stimpy is it?

[stimpy]

Didn't get it.

[RodKnock]

I'm not sure there are many "base" Kirkhams out there. Ron's 289 FIA at $75,000 is about the cheapest presently on the market and I sincerely doubt that he will take your "base" amount. I think if you could find a "base" 427 Kirkham, then $75,000 is a pretty good figure to use.

As I mentioned about the stainless steel frame, IMHO, the supercharger adds nothing for me. Webers? Yes. Turkey pan and carb? Yes. But that's me.

[stimpy]

Also, thanks for the info.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by stimpy

Didn't get it.

Then I'm getting old. You don't remember Ren & Stimpy?

BTW, if history tells you anything, then that Kirkham being sold on eBay with green/gold/tan color combo, may be a difficult sale and could be ultimately sold for a very reasonable sum of money.

Bill (Mr. Mustang) tried to sell his really nice ERA several months ago and I could only guess that the green exterior/tan interior color combo had to a major factor in his no sale. And his car is very, very nice with an original Tunnleport 427 sideoiler.

[twobjshelbys]

Stimpy,

Where do you live? You should be cautious of aluminum if you live in a hail prone area. I'm glad mine is NOT aluminum since I've been on several trips (all car shows) that when I left the sky was clear and blue and left when the storms started building up and drove into hail. One of them was major enough that I was injured (ears cut) with shooter-marble sized hail. the mirrors got dented, but no damage to the carbon fiber car though.

[Jamo]

Stimpy...it's a fine madness.

Good luck and have fun with your search. It is a great time to buy, but don't wait too long.

[Excaliber]

Lowest priced used Kirkham I know off was sold for about $65K. Nice specs too, it's what I would have wanted. Side oiler for openers, nice motor, nothing to extreme. The car had some miles on it, just the right amount to be sorted out. Brush finish, nothing real special, which would be perfect for me!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Lowest priced used Kirkham I know off was sold for about $65K. Nice specs too, it's what I would have wanted. Side oiler for openers, nice motor, nothing to extreme. The car had some miles on it, just the right amount to be sorted out. Brush finish, nothing real special, which would be perfect for me!

I think you're remembering Flip's (HICOBRA) Kirkham purchase. He paid $68,000 on eBay 2-3 years ago. Yes, he got a very nice deal. I was nearly a bidder on that auction.

[RodKnock]

It was May 2008 and the price was $68,655.

http://clubcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87726

[RaceDeck]

I think last year it surely may have been possible to get a quality Kirkham for near the numbers you are talking about, from some poor soul who needed cash asap to survive.
To me, a KMP is truly a beautiful handcrafted piece of machinery and knowing what it takes to craft these cars, I am not sure how the Kirkhams make any money?
$75k seems like a fantastic deal for a quality 'used' KMP with the proper set-up ( if there are any out there). A buddy of mine sold his in 2008 for around $92k ( 1200 miles on it). I am sure there may be a few deals left out there ....but even the green one on eBay is no deal if you calculate what it would cost to strip off that Green and Gold

[RodKnock]

Flip's was the cheapest public Kirkham 427 sale that I can remember, but this Kirkham 289 FIA was sold by Paul at the Autokennel for $74,000 and it was right near the bottom for sale price, though it had s small of amount of aluminum repair done from what I heard:

http://clubcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95139

If one has patience and can wait, be in position to pounce, then there are deals that come along infrequently.