File finish or upgrade to brushed aluminum

[olddog]

I was looking at the options on the price page of the Kirkham site.

The standard or bare bone default that the page opens to is a file finish on the body.

For about 15K you can upgrade to a brushed aluminum or a polished aluminum.

I assume the file finish would be ready to paint, but maybe not. So what is require to get it ready to paint?

Polishing aluminum is pretty straight forward to do. I have done that. How does one brush aluminum? I'm assuming this is a fair amount of work if the price is the same as polishing it.

I'm guessing 10 to 15 hours labor based on the price, so double that for a novice. I could handle 40hr, but do I have the skills??? Is easy to do just requires work, or is it highly skilled work to get it right?

EDIT: Oops, I missed a decimal place. $15,000 would be 150 hr at 100$/hr or 100 hr at 150$/hr --- don't know the labor rate. Thnks King-cobra for waking me up.

[King- cobra]

Plan on 100s of hours to paint or polish.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by King- cobra

Plan on 100s of hours to paint or polish.

What needs done to prep for paint?

[King- cobra]

There is a lot of body work as well as a ton of priming and blocking. The scratches from a file finish a very deep and require a good bit of work. That is why Davis charges $15,000 to brush or polish them there is that much work involved. You would be money ahead to let David do that for you. I have owned several Kirkhams and speak form experience.

[Phx Mike]

If you want to paint it you will want to take delivery with the filed finish. It is not “ready to paint” in that condition - you or your painter will have to sand, fill, sand, prime and paint like a steel bodied car. But you would not want to get it brushed or polished if you want to paint. David does not paint cars so if you go that route you want to take it from his place to the painter.

Unless you have A LOT of time I would not recommend brushing it or polishing it yourself. It is A LOT of work. You will have aluminum dust in every crevice of your house and orifice on your body. On just a good periodic touch-up polish on my car I go through 15 or so microfiber cloths and they are black when I am done. Polishing the big flat surfaces is not too bad but there are lots of little nooks and crannies to do. And you have to be careful you don’t dent anything. MAINTAINING the cars finish is no worse that polishing and waxing a regular car but getting it to the brushed or polished state in the first place is hundreds of hours of work as noted above.

[olddog]

Well I have seen quite a few brushed and polished Kirkhams. I have seen pictures of painted Kirkhams. I do not know if I have ever seen a painted Kirkham in person, because when the hood and trunk is closed, I can tell some manufactures by eye, but many I cannot. The closer they look to original, the harder it is for me to see, when they are totally closed up. That said I think I would go brushed, however I am curious if you can paint one for quite a bit less. I would be partial to black, and that takes a lot more work to get ready to paint, as you see every minor thing with black.

Still how much would you have in getting one painted black verses the $15K to have it brushed.

I tend to look at how much can I save, like a cheap skate, but that is not the only thought process for me. I may choose to spend more for other reasons, but I want to understand what it is costing me, before I decide.

[Phx Mike]

It’s a good question. I don’t know what the cost is because I have not had a car painted in a long time, but I would imagine that the cost of painting a Kirkham, starting with a filed finish, would be similar to painting a steel car starting with a car that has the original paint sanded down. I really wanted to get mine painted, but the challenge of having the car sent to a painter, finished, and then sent back to David for engine and transmission installed, just did not seem like it was worth the effort. However, if you are taking delivery of a roller, and going to do the engine and transmission install yourself, it would certainly be an option. I would get it painted before the engine and transmission are installed, so that you can do the inside of the engine bay etc.

There is one additional factor to consider, with an aluminum car that is painted. With the brush or polished finish, it is relatively easy to pound out small dents and then re-polish or re-brush the finish, so that it matches the original seamlessly. David has some videos on his websites that show how this is done. If you have paint on the car, the process is a lot more involved. And, speaking from experience, the aluminum does dent much more easily than steel and is certainly not as tough as fiberglass. If you drive the car, like I do, you will have many small stone dents in the front fascia area, and on the front edges of the rear fenders. If this “patina” does not bother you, then I think the paint would look great!

[olddog]

Thanks Mike the dent thing is very real.

I have a glass Cobra now that was originally a red color gel coat, that the previous owner put a very nice black paint job on. So I have to touch up any stone chips or the red shows.

I made the mistake one night of hosing the car off to get the bug guts off after hitting a cloud of bugs. I didn't dry the car thinking it was night time, so it wouldn't spot. Not thinking I drove it to work the next day. When I got home I realized the sun had baked the water spots into the paint. I used every cleaner known to man. Then the clay and polish. Then polish. Eventually I got it all off, but I'm not sure how thick the clear coat is after all that polishing. The point being, taking care of black paint is work.

[olddog]

I have polished aluminum parts that I made. The worst piece was some aluminum pipe that had hung outside at the plant I work at for 35+ years. It was very oxidized when I started. I don't see brushing a car as bad as you all describe, but I do appreciate how do you keep everything going the same direction on this body shape. If some metal does need filled here and there, I am no aluminum welder. I can weld steel, but aluminum I never even tried. Given the value of the car, I agree this is something you do not want to screw up. So I think this is too much to bite off for me.

[Phx Mike]

Part of what makes it tough is there are not a lot of flat surfaces. Also you can’t get too aggressive or you will dent the car (the body is 1.5mm or about 0.060” thick soft aluminum). It’s just a hell of a lot of square inches to polish or brush. And the brushed cars do have all the marks going front to back.

I don’t think you would have to fill anything if you paint it, other than what the normal body filler would cover.

[SSSammy]

I recently sold my brushed Kirkham with polished stripes that was done by Kirkham. If you seriously think you want to own a bare aluminum car, then you owe it to yourself to go to Provo and visit the factory. They are extraordinarily nice people and they will show you unfinished and finished cars and even show you how they do it.


Look at some of the mirror cars on their site and understand how flat those panels have to be to look like mirrors. It's a big metal working exercise along with the several stages of sanding and polishing. This is also the case for the brushed panels. The body has to be perfect before the final step with a block and 100 grit. They start the block at one end of a panel and hold it down and walk the entire length of the panel without lifting. Exact pressure is key. Then they go back for another stroke, and so on. When it is done it is like a linear vinyl record. Go look at one in person.


This is not a suitable finish for a car that gets used a lot if it bothers you to see it scratched up and blotched with stains from hand prints. I've seen people walk up to my car and scratch with their finger nails to confirm it is not a wrap If you think you can touch up a scratch from a stroller or a belt buckle, realize that as you own the car, the aluminum will patina (oxidize) slowly. So even if you are very good with a sanding block, the reworked area will stand out from the original finish.


My point ... let Kirkham do it. Indulge yourself! You are spending close to $200K for this car. $15K to get a quality finish, polish/brush or paint is an investment that will help your car stand out from the pack at resale time.


Good luck!
Sam

[aeon]

if you follow along in my build thread you will see what we did to the brushed car. Clear wrap and so far its freaking amazing. Long term no clue but so far its perfect!

the brushed finish is pretty but every little thing on earth messes it up. you can't touch it with anything and fixing it your self is pretty much a no go.

if the clear wrap holds up then it might be the answer! We used clear gloss wrap on this one. we did a test panel with the satin wrap and it was crazy. Dead flat brushed aluminum. Not what i wanted but it would look killer

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by olddog

... I made the mistake one night of hosing the car off to get the bug guts off after hitting a cloud of bugs. I didn't dry the car thinking it was night time, so it wouldn't spot. Not thinking I drove it to work the next day. When I got home I realized the sun had baked the water spots into the paint. I used every cleaner known to man. Then the clay and polish. Then polish. Eventually I got it all off ...

Something that I have found helpful when the car gets water spots is vinegar and then soapy water with a soft microfiber towel. The spotting is essentially a calcium residue left behind as the water evaporates. The vinegar has not damaged the paint although I do rinse the area off when I finish.

The vinegar dissolves the calcium spotting from the evaporating water and will leave the finish looking new again. I don't know if vinegar has an adverse effect on the aluminum Kirkham makes their bodies out of but I have used it, without damage, to remove water spotting on polished 6061 and also polished 356 aluminum castings.


Ed

[olddog]

Ed,

You or someone else suggested the vinegar to me right after I got it all polished off, so I never did try that.

Years ago, I had an aluminum boat that someone had painted with god know's what paint, but it was pealing like a house. Got it cheap. I stripped it. Then I used vinegar to etch the aluminum so the paint would stick to it. Someone told me to use vinegar or some other weak acid, so I chose the vinegar. The paint looked like new 5 years later when I sold the boat. I know it takes a while for it to work on the aluminum, but it does etch it after some time. So I would be careful with it. I know I neutralized it with soda before painting the boat.

[twobjshelbys]

Paint it.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by aeon

if you follow along in my build thread you will see what we did to the brushed car. Clear wrap and so far its freaking amazing. Long term no clue but so far its perfect!

the brushed finish is pretty but every little thing on earth messes it up. you can't touch it with anything and fixing it your self is pretty much a no go.

if the clear wrap holds up then it might be the answer! We used clear gloss wrap on this one. we did a test panel with the satin wrap and it was crazy. Dead flat brushed aluminum. Not what i wanted but it would look killer

Well I hear some people a bit offended if you say aluminum is hard to take care of and others say it is hard to keep looking nice.

I had wondered "why not clear coat it?" Of course paint has its pros and cones. I also wondered why not put a wax coating on it, but wax-on step may go better than the wax-off step. I have waxed my polished aluminum parts, but never brushed. I like the wrap idea.

[olddog]

So let's just hypothetically say I did get a Kirkham. Let's assume I drive it a half dozen years or so. Then I decide I'm getting too old, reflexes are slowing down, and it is just too much to handle. So the day comes that I put it up for sale.

I realize that the market for replicas of a Cobra is small compared to the general public. Of the population that would love to own one, many do not have the money to even pay $25K. So it only stands to reason that of this group of people only a small percent can afford to put out $150K. Those who can, most likely are not worried about price and are much more concerned about what they want.

Of the Kirkhams I have looked at, the lowest price I found was a very nice polished 427 SC with a small block at $90K. The lowest priced with an FE was $120K (only saw one) and the rest were north of $140K. So lesson one, put a small block in most lower priced glass cars, not so big a deal. Put it in a high end ERA or Kirkham and it is a different ball game.

So assuming one puts a quality FE and a worked over TKO 600 in a Kirkham. How long would you expect it takes to sell it? A few months, a year, or years?

[eschaider]

Pretty quick after you find someone who wants one and can afford it. The trick is the finding someone and the time line for that can be indeterminate.

Ed