2018 lcs

[Dwight]

We had a local 12 year old boy to die with the flu last week. He had cystic fibrous which exacerbated his illness.

There have been 87 deaths in Alabama this year(2018, today is Feb 8th) from the flu.

So his passing has motivated me to buy tickets a little early this year and maybe a few more than I normally buy.

It's sad that a 12 year boy will not see adulthood because of diseases in this country.

[redmt]

Yes Dwight. I wonder where all these viruses and antibiotic resistant illnesses come from? It couldn't be from other countries could it? Unfortunately for the little boy and his family we are killing ourselves.

[bobcowan]

Some disease - like CF - we have not conquered yet. We have conquered more diseases in the last 2 centuries than we have in the last 2 millennia. But there's still a ways to go.

Another problem is the idiots who won't vaccinate their kids.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

Another problem is the idiots who won't vaccinate their kids.

Dwight what happen to the child is a tragedy, as all deaths of all children are. I do not mean to take away from that, but the statement above concerns me a little bit.

Be careful. I can introduce you to a person who spent a year in a hospitals and nursing homes, in agony, with some type of nerve disorder. He was finally able to learn to walk again, but is permanently disabled. The doctors say it was all caused by the flue shot he received shortly before it all happened. I have asked other doctors, and they admit this does happen in a small percentage of cases.

I have had doctors admit that there is no proof that the flue vaccine works, although theoretically it should help, and they believe it reduces the severity, if you do get the flue. Studies have shown that the percentage of people who get the flue and had the flue shot is about the same number as those who get the flue and did not get the shot. Give or take about half of the people in the USA get the flue shot. So there is no statistical difference in getting the flue, weather you get the shot or not.

I know one doctor who will not take the flue shot and will not give it to his children. He said there is no proof it helps, but there is proof that it can do terrible damage, if you happen to be in that small percentage.

That all said I do get the flue shot. Statistically it is likely worth the risk, since I have already got them with no ill effects. That is my decision, but I would not cast stones at someone who decided it is not worth the risk. I surely would not want anyone to take that decision away from us all, and calling those people idiots is just a short step from thinking that way.

Before calling them idiots, you might want to ask why they choose not to take the vaccine. This all happened about a decade ago, when I looked into this. Things may have changed.

PS
Bob I am guilty of overstating things without giving it a thought. I'm kind of a shock jock myself. So, I'm know better than you or anyone else. I just felt the need to speak up on this one. Don't take it as a personal attack.

[redmt]

Seeing as how the unfortunate death of a young child has been semi hijacked to a health related conversation, I feel that my .02 aren't that far out of line.
Vaccinations,,, I believe that everyone has the right to do as they see best for their kids. I also feel that if the school system , for instance, makes vaccinations mandatory then the parent has every right to withhold those vaccinations but the flip side is that the school has the right to ban that child from school. Simple, follow the rules or find another way to educate your kids. You do have a choice.

[Dwight]

As I re-read my post I see that I forgot to say that the London Cobra Show / Ohio Cobra Club have raised over a million dollars that was donated to Cystic Fibrous.
We as Cobra community have been donating to CF since 2001. All the money went to research to combat CF. In 2016 the CF representative gave a report on the progress of drugs that have been developed and the improvement in the quality of life for the people (mostly kids) with CF.
It was all good news.

So this year I will buy a few extra raffle tickets to help out.
The CF organization has the lowest overhead cost of any charitable organization. Nearly all of the money goes for research not fat cat salaries.

https://www.ohiocobraclub.com/news#news-147-div

[bobcowan]

I'v practiced medicine for 40 years on 5 continents. I'v seen parents travel for days in very dangerous conditions just so I can lay my hands on their children, and vaccinate them.

I have watched scores of children die of preventable diseases like measles, diphtheria, and mumps. The things I'v seen will break your heart and change you forever.

And now I have to listen to parents who won't vaccinate their kids because they "don't believe in them". Or they read some story on the internet. One mother told me that vaccines were derived from the kidneys of aborted fetuses.

And then they get mad at me when I refuse to sign the form that says it's OK for their unvaccinated kids to go to the local day care center. You want to risk your kids life, I guess I can't stop you. But I can stop you from risking every other kids life.

So far this year, 63 children have died of the flu in the US alone. And the season is just getting started. If you're going to a doctor that won't vaccinate, I highly suggest you find another doctor.

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by olddog

Be careful. I can introduce you to a personwho spent a year in a hospitals and nursing homes, in agony, with some type of nerve disorder. He was finally able to learn to walk again, but is permanently disabled. The doctors say it was all caused by the flue shot he received shortly before

One person, 10 years ago.

Do you know how many people died every year before the vaccine was developed? Do you know how many people were permanently disabled from lung damage and lung disease? Or just how many lost work and school days? The numbers are staggering.

Life is about risk vs. benefit. It always is. It's a gamble, and you have to go with the odds. You can get up in the morning and drive to work, but you might get in a car crash. Or, you can stay home and you won't get in a crash. But you'll probably get fired. Risk vs. Benefit.

https://www.healthline.com/health/wo...ry#Diphtheria8

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6627a1.htm

If you decide not to vaccinate your kids because you don't believe in it, or you're afraid they'll catch autism, and then they die of the flu, how will you feel then? You'll spend the rest of your life knowing you let your kid die of a preventable disease.

[olddog]

Bob,

Thank you for all you have done. There are tons of evidence that many vaccinations actually prevent diseases. Small pox for example.

The subject was the Flue. Please point me to a credible medical study that proves the flue shot prevents people from getting the flue. I do believe it was reported locally that one of the children who died this year, from the flue, did get the shot. I'm not certain of that, but pretty sure of it.

If the flue shot was totally effective, even with the risks, people who couldn't afford one would be begging for help to get one. It would be a political issue, no doubt.

As it stands the news, government, and people like yourself are preaching for everyone to get one and only 45% did it. So why is that? 55% of the country is just idiots?

[Tom Wells]

Dear old,

This is a flue:


This is the flu:


Sorry - couldn't resist...

Tom

[olddog]

Now that's funny.

Yes my spelling isn't the greatest, especially words I do not type often, like a medical term.

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by olddog

Please point me to a credible medical study that proves the flue shot prevents people from getting the flue.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...?redirect=true

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season...-2017-2018.htm

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...7330991170295X

[olddog]

I googled does the flu shot work. This is the first thing that popped up.

https://www.focusforhealth.org/may-n...SAAEgJjEvD_BwE

Seems like not much has changed in a decade.

The CDC site says "recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine."

Which means if their guess as to which 3 strains of flu will be present is correct, the best you can hope for is 60%. Even at that, the measure is that you didn't get sick enough to go to a hospital, if I read it correctly. I couldn't find anything on the CDC site that states how often the guess at which 3 stains to vaccinate against is the correct guess, but I'm certain they do not bat at 1000 and once in a while they may strike out.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...?redirect=true

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season...-2017-2018.htm

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...7330991170295X

Thanks Bob.

I posted the previous post before reading this one.

The most interesting new thing I read was a cell grown vaccine. This may improve things a bunch, at least in theory it should. I question if this method might reduce the Mercury based preservative required, when grown in eggs. I hope so. As I understand it, most of the bad things have to do with growing the virus in eggs.

I still come away with the same understandings.
1) The Flu shot does not prevent you from getting the flue, as a small pox vaccination prevented small pox.
2) The flu shot most likely reduces your likely hood to get the flu, but the variable are many and difficult to measure. There is no conclusive proof.
3) The flu shot does give your immune system a head start and therefore in my mind is the biggest benefit. It will reduce the severity of the flu if you get it, provided the strain you got matched the shot. The guess of which 3 or 4 to put into the shot each year is a gamble using the best statistics we know.
4) There are real risks. If you are one of the unlucky few, the damage to you can be devastating.
5) There are other long term risks that we may not know for years. If you get a shot every year of you life that is a lot of mercury.

This is a multi-billion dollar industry. It would not be in their self interest to be totally honest. There are plenty of real scientist out there questioning this. Therefore I still stand by opinion that people who choose not to get a flu shot are not all idiots, and it is their right to make that choice.

It just occurred to me that statistically some of the people who did get the shot are idiots, therefore idiots has nothing to do with it at all.

[bobcowan]

Last year, over 100 children DIED in the US alone from influenza. This year the death toll is over 30, and we're only half way through the season. From simple influenza. Nearly all of those children were not immunized.

How many children had a serious adverse event from the vaccine in the same time frame? And I would guess that 3-4 times as many children received the vaccine as actually caught the flu.

How much more data do you need? 130 deaths, zero serious adverse events. The proof is banging against your forehead like a 5 pound sledge hammer. And yet you still stand there and say, "Yeah But....."

Have you ever actually watched someone die of the flu? Not read about it in the paper, but actually watched it happen? What do you say to the mom when she asks you, "If She had gotten the flu shot, would my baby still be alive?" I lie to her and say, "Probably not".

[Dumpling]

All I was looking for is information about the show, you know, dates, Times, events, raffles...in a thread titled 2018 lcs.
Guessing I'm in the wrong place.

[1795]

Google London Cobra Show 2018 and it will take you to the website and provide al of the information that you need. Have fun.

Jim

[Dwight]

maybe this will help

https://www.londoncobrashow.com/

[1795]

I will be arriving on the 20th for the Vintage Grand Prix and will try to get there early enough to be a spectator for everyone doing the track event that day. It would be nice to meet some of the people on this forum in person. Hopefully they will let me in.

Jim