hoping for help from SB100 experts

[SB100FOMO]

I've done a lot of online research on getting SB100 for a custom build Manx style (fiberglass body) dune buggy. Most of the threads on SPCNS for buggies point back to this forum. So I'm kind of cheating by being here, but I hope I'll get a pass from my DIY performance motoring brethren...and maybe it will help others in the process.

Most Manx dune buggies registered in CA are running a VW tunnel with an original VIN, and are registered as VW's. In most cases the only remaining part is the tunnel and everything else is new and custom, and has subaru, honda or even LS engine. So even though I know its been done, I haven't been able to connect with anyone that got SB100 on a buggy, since most chose the path pf least resistance.

I'd like to go the SB100 route:

--- I would like to construct a new home made vehicle, no VW parts, using a tube frame, Manx fiberglass body, and a modern V6 Honda Turbo engine. Since the Manx was not a production motor, how do you get the officials to give you a SB100 for a pre-smog motor? Can I point to a 1964 or 1965 Manx advertisement (the year the prototype and first bodies were sold the public) and say this is a 1965 Manx, even if they weren't sold as complete vehicles?

--- Regarding smog, the SPCNS code states: A SPCNS certificate of sequence identifies a vehicle as one for which the owner may choose the emission control inspection to be based on the model-year of the vehicle’s engine or the model-year of that the vehicle’s body most closely resembles.

If I purchase a dune buggy with a modern motor could I still try and point to the original VW bug tunnel, VIN and year, so that emissions standards are tied to the year of the chassis tunnel, and not the year of the modern motor?

--- Taking taking a different approach, there is one piece of language in the code that might be the most helpful...if it is viable: " If the vehicle or engine does not resemble one previously manufactured, the referee will assign 1960 as the year model"

So for arguments sake, lets say you have a Manx style Dune Buggy with an modified, turbocharged, intercooled Honda V6 motor and stand alone ECU to make it run....no company ever officially manufactured street legal Manx vehicles... and I assembled the motor from bits and pieces (i.e. Honda never produced a turbo charged, intercooled V-6)....would it be possible to claim that the turbo honda Manx Dune buggy "does not resemble a vehicle previously manufactured," and therefore gets the 1960 model year designation? (i.e. no smog req'd)

Big thanks to anyone that can help!

[jhv48]

Why make it harder than it is? Can’t the Manx be registered using the original vin from the VW chassis?
Isn’t it still considered to be a modified VW?

[Randy Rosenberg]

Once the Manx is legally titled in CA (using the VW VIN), then there's no need to change the title.

If you a building a "new" Manx from scratch, using no VW parts (ie: no VW VIN), then you would be building a "Specially Constructed Vehicle", eligible for SB100 Smog Exemption, based up on the year that body represents (just like a building a new Cobra Replica).

[SB100FOMO]

Originally Posted by jhv48

Why make it harder than it is? Can’t the Manx be registered using the original vin from the VW chassis?
Isn’t it still considered to be a modified VW?

Yes, most Manx Buggies are registered as a VW Beetles, but speaking from personal experience that leaves you in kind of a no mans land when it comes to insurance, liability, and the CHP.

I bought a Manx project that was already registered as a 63' VW in CA. By the time I finished the project the only thing left was the VW tunnel (with original VIN) and floorpan, which is typical for the breed. It had a full powder coated cage, a built turbo subaru engine w/ custom intercooler and radiator & plumbing, stand alone ECU with dyno tune, high HP Weddle transmission, billet brakes, long travel suspension, etc, etc.

I shopped hard for insurance options and went with a broker who was a member of the Manx Club that "specialized" in writing insurance policies for Manx Buggies. I sent photos and a description of the vehicle to the agent, who issued a policy for a "1963 VW Dune Buggy". Same year as the VIN on the tunnel and the reg.

Fast forward to a wild fire that destroyed most of our neighborhood and my Manx. After hiring a private adjuster who fought the insurance company for almost a year, they paid me approx 35% of the market value of a comparable used Manx. Reason given? It was insured as a 1963 VW Dune Buggy (by their agent) so their comps were Dune Buggies from the 60's with stock VW engines and components, and completely disregarded our "like for like" comp of equivalent builds.

These days, the value of original Meyers Manx Buggies has risen, so you can get a pretty good stated value policy from Hagerty or Rally, but there are limitations...namely no off-road use, which is part of the reason to have a buggy in the first place.

As far as the CHP, every situation is different. They tend to give a pass to old school buggies with original VW engines and running gear, but take a lot harder stance on at aggressive looking cars with big tires, long travel suspension and large exposed engines with turbo's or superchargers and headers, etc.

[SB100FOMO]

Originally Posted by Randy Rosenberg

Once the Manx is legally titled in CA (using the VW VIN), then there's no need to change the title.

If you a building a "new" Manx from scratch, using no VW parts (ie: no VW VIN), then you would be building a "Specially Constructed Vehicle", eligible for SB100 Smog Exemption, based up on the year that body represents (just like a building a new Cobra Replica).

I guess the question in the buggy world, is your first point....if the only thing left is a VW tunnel, or small piece of the tunnel with the original VIN, is the Manx Buggy legally titled when the Reg says 1963 VW Beetle? I really don't know and it's part of the reason I am here. (20x-30x? as many Cobras on the road as Manx's, so larger knowledge base)

I am also here for guidance on the second point. While Cobras were sold as a production car in the US, Manx buggies were not. So how do we get the SB100 referenced to the year the body represents (our desired outcome) vs the much newer honda, subaru or LS engine that is installed?

Thx for taking the time to reply.

[NROTOXIN]

This from CA DMV site:
A SPCNS vehicle does not refer to a vehicle that has been repaired or restored using replacement parts, or to a vehicle modified from its original design.

Example: A Volkswagen “Beetle” with modified fenders, engine compartment lid, and front end is not considered a specially constructed vehicle because it is still recognizable as a Volkswagen “Beetle”.

How does one insure a Yenko, Baldwin Motion Nova? AGREED Value?

[SB100FOMO]

Originally Posted by NROTOXIN

This from CA DMV site:
A SPCNS vehicle does not refer to a vehicle that has been repaired or restored using replacement parts, or to a vehicle modified from its original design.

Example: A Volkswagen “Beetle” with modified fenders, engine compartment lid, and front end is not considered a specially constructed vehicle because it is still recognizable as a Volkswagen “Beetle”.

How does one insure a Yenko, Baldwin Motion Nova? AGREED Value?

Yes, lots of grey areas to sort through. Most everyone recognizes a Manx, but is a Manx "recognizable as a Beetle? in the eyes of the DMV?

I've read most of this info - https://www.semasan.com/semaga/TagTitleToolbox_CA.pdf

but I think a big part of the difficulty is that everyone's SB100 experience is so different based on the individuals you have to deal with along the way (@ DMV, BAR, CHP)

[NROTOXIN]

No gray area here. If you build a Manx from scratch then the SB100 route is what you take. If you are utilizing a production vehicle with a VIN that has previously registered as an XXX then that is what you have.

SB100 is not the a route that will allow you to identify a Manx just as my 2001 SPCNS does not identify my car as a COBRA.

[SB100FOMO]

Originally Posted by NROTOXIN

No gray area here. If you build a Manx from scratch then the SB100 route is what you take. If you are utilizing a production vehicle with a VIN that has previously registered as an XXX then that is what you have.

SB100 is not the a route that will allow you to identify a Manx just as my 2001 SPCNS does not identify my car as a COBRA.

If you use only the VW tunnel with a VIN previously which was previously (or always) registered as a VW Beetle, and everything else is new and different than VW, do you have a production vehicle? Or a new SPCN vehicle?

Not a rhetorical question, I honestly don't know, even though this is standard practice in the Manx world.

[NROTOXIN]

It's a VW, and that is the example DMV provided. What exactly are you after and what is it that you think an SB100 brings to the party? Expectations?

If you build one from scratch, like our Cobras, then you go the SB100 route.

[SB100FOMO]

Thanks for the replys so far....really appreciate the input!

The feeling in the Manx community is that SPCNS gives you the ability to secure proper insurance for the vehicle and perhaps some protection against liability.

SB100 gives you the opportunity to run a modern engine without having to package catalytic converters, EGR, etc.

For example, someone pulls out in front of you and causes and accident. Their trigger happy lawyer comes after you for partial fault and during discovery finds that your "1963 VW Beetle" is a heavily modified vehicle with a 400 hp motor and virtually no VW parts. Does that increase your risk of liability in a suit? It probably gives the prosecution ammo for making a case that your "unsafe modifications" contributed to the accident. Don't know for certain, but that is one concern.

The other is CHP scrutiny when you vehicle gets too far away from its registered title. Most of us have experienced that first hand.

[SB100FOMO]

Circling back the second part of my original post.

I would like to construct a new home made vehicle, no VW parts, using a tube frame, Manx fiberglass body, and a modern V6 Honda Turbo engine.

Since no Manx was ever produced, how do you get the officials to give you a SB100 for a pre-smog motor?

I know this is possible, as I have seen (2) Manx Buggies with SB100 tag and 2000's model year engines. In both cases the seller was not the builder and could not tell me how the certificate was received.

Pretty straight forward if you are building a hot rod with a recognizable (30's) body style. But since a Manx was never a production vehicle, what model year is the body? If I remember, both SB100 Manx were given a model year of 1960? Even though the bodies were brand new.

back to the code: A SPCNS certificate of sequence identifies a vehicle as one for which the owner may choose the emission control inspection to be based on the model-year of the vehicle’s engine or the model-year of that the vehicle’s body most closely resembles.

[NROTOXIN]

From a LEGAL standpoint you can't take a heavily modified 65 mustang and one day just turn around a register it as a 200x SPCNS. I can't speak to the Manx community insurance theories but the the law is pretty clear about a SPCNS. Build one from scratch and use SB100. Then you can have another community talk about the liabilities of a "home built" vehicle on the road. (sarcasm)