Another ford racing 427 eating cam gear

[68pony]

Yes another one, some will remember my thread about my ford racing 427 burning oil a while back, brand new motor and from the first start it was puffing smoke, long story short, the guides were stuffed, yes on a brand new never started motor stuffed guides, you wonder where fords quality control is, anyway we fixed that problem and can I say ford racing were no help at all, all they did was put the blame on my mechanic and said he didn't fit the intake gasket properly or then they said it was sucking oil up through the pvc, wrong again, so I decide its time for a dyno tune after putting around 3000 miles on it, I want to give it a run on the quarter mile and wanted to make sure the mixtures were all good, while trying to set the timing we found it was jumping all over the place and pulled the dizzy cap to find a fair bit of play on the rotor, we pulled dizzy found wear on the dizzy gear but the cam gear was far worse, it made 378hp at rear wheels ,i've posted pics, the dizzy gear is a msd steel gear and the ford racing tech sheet says its a billet steel cam so everything should of been okay, ive been talking to brent (blykins )over the last 3 weeks and what can I say he is a true gentleman he sent me a custom grind cam, new lifters and a new dizzy gear his replies to my emails were instant, im sure he doesn't sleep he must be a zombie , im half way across the world here in Australia and he has gone out of his way to help me, ive got the car back now (68 mustang) and holy crap what a difference it made 408hp at wheels, we picked up 30hp at wheels the mid range and top end are just sensational, so what do you guys think from the photos what caused the wear, I used a 20/50 oil which is thicker than recommended but surely could not cause that much wear, not sure if it had anything to do with it but the dizzy gear that brent sent me was a little wider and the gears much thicker than the msd one, we also had to drill the shaft out for the bigger pin, I wonder if its these crap msd dizzy gears causing the problem, any thoughts out there would be appreciated.
cheers chris.

[fordracing65]

Sorry to hear, but every story has a happy ending, thanks to Blykins, he is definitely the man, true to his word...

[68pony]

yes but i'm paying for ford racings mistakes, remember brand new motor= stuffed guides, soft valve springs and now this, its cost me thousands to fix something totally not my fault, this engine was assembled and left the factory faulty, where is the quality control.

[fordracing65]

Ford dropped the ball, I hear all the time how engines and car warranties are usually crap even though they should take car of the problem, especially some of the Cobra brands, not to name any names...

[blykins]

Glad you're happy man.

There are several things that need to be noted about cam gears and distributor gears.

1. The materials must match and you want the distributor gear to be the sacrificial gear.
2. You can never assume that a gear is pressed onto the distributor shaft the correct amount. There is a spec for this, and on an MSD, it needs to be 3.995-4.005". That's measured from the flange to the bottom of the gear with all the endplay removed. You can not press on a new gear, just line the holes up, and roll with it. That distance needs to be checked every single time.
3. On a SBF, the distributor and cam gears get oil from the front cam bearing feed. I've seen aftermarket blocks where this feed has not been drilled or the cam bearing covers the feed. If that happens, the only oil the gears will get will be a little splash.

[68pony]

good info brent I will pass that on to my guy here.

[Tom Wells]

68pony,

Sigh...

You are not alone: Tom challenges the Butcher! Dist gear failure report...

Note that this happened in 2002 with a Ford crate motor.

Note also that Ford paid ZERO for the rebuild, which cost me over $2000US.

Ask me if I'll trust Ford again

Tom

[dallas_]

I had a cam gear failure on my Ford Racing crate motor. I guess I'm fortunate that they took care of it completely. (Well, other than having to remove it, crate it up and reinstall it when the repairs were done.)

I'm no expert on oil, but it's my understanding that the viscosity of a 20/50 weight oil is really high at startup temperatures. Don't know if that contributed in any way, but you may want to consult with Brent about which oil he recommends when you get it all back together.

[Luce]

I did my first oil change a few weeks ago after my cam replacement. I had a little bit of metal on the magnetic drain plugs and I had that OH $hit not again feeling where you want to loosen a fuel fitting and throw a lit match at it.

So I gathered my courage and pulled the dizzy. It must have been the last few bits of the old gear floating around. I saved the filter, but haven't cut it open yet. It's so messy. I'll do it sometime.

On the up side, the gear was absolutely drenched and dripping with oil, and both gears have shiny mating surfaces, but no signs of missing material, so I think the lubing channels are open and functioning. It sure runs good! The new cam still has plenty of lope for me, but better vacuum at idle and pulls like a train all the way up to 6200 where I set the limiter.

On my motor, even if Ford offered to repair it if I removed, crated, shipped and reinstalled, I would say no thanks. Changing the cam out was much easier that removing and reinstalling the engine would have been, and I know those monkeys didn;t touch it! If I just let them fix it, I don't think I would be able to drive the car again for fear of being stranded somewhere.

Catch the problems before they go catastrophic and you'll be OK. It has what looks like good short block parts. I haven't put enough miles on it yet to comment on oil consumption, but it doesn't smoke enough to embarrass me, so the oil consumption isn't a problem for me.

[madmaxx]

Original cam appears to be a SADI cast cam not a billet steel cam. I beleive that is where the problem lies. Blykins can confirm. Hire a lawyer and have him draft a letter of demand for your expenses and send to Ford. Cost you about $300. Probably get reimbursed if not you loose $300 and feel good about doing everything you could. Oh, dont every buy a Ford product again.

[68pony]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Original cam appears to be a SADI cast cam not a billet steel cam. I beleive that is where the problem lies. Blykins can confirm. Hire a lawyer and have him draft a letter of demand for your expenses and send to Ford. Cost you about $300. Probably get reimbursed if not you loose $300 and feel good about doing everything you could. Oh, dont every buy a Ford product again.

WTF! a cast cam, well no wonder it f@c$ed it, the only up side to this is i got a power increase, and my brakes feel better, thanks to blykins for a great cam choice, i to feel more comfortable buying the parts from brent as i know they will be spot on and getting my guy here to install rather than ford wankers do the work, i'm going to use the old cam as a plant holder, you know when you buy a plant in a pot and it droops to one side so you put a stick in the pot and tie the plant to it to hold it up i didn't even call them, don't want to here there bull**** again, by the way brent we also measured the old dizzy with the worn gear on it and it was within spec.

[68pony]

Originally Posted by Luce

I did my first oil change a few weeks ago after my cam replacement. I had a little bit of metal on the magnetic drain plugs and I had that OH $hit not again feeling where you want to loosen a fuel fitting and throw a lit match at it.

So I gathered my courage and pulled the dizzy. It must have been the last few bits of the old gear floating around. I saved the filter, but haven't cut it open yet. It's so messy. I'll do it sometime.

On the up side, the gear was absolutely drenched and dripping with oil, and both gears have shiny mating surfaces, but no signs of missing material, so I think the lubing channels are open and functioning. It sure runs good! The new cam still has plenty of lope for me, but better vacuum at idle and pulls like a train all the way up to 6200 where I set the limiter.

On my motor, even if Ford offered to repair it if I removed, crated, shipped and reinstalled, I would say no thanks. Changing the cam out was much easier that removing and reinstalling the engine would have been, and I know those monkeys didn;t touch it! If I just let them fix it, I don't think I would be able to drive the car again for fear of being stranded somewhere.

Catch the problems before they go catastrophic and you'll be OK. It has what looks like good short block parts. I haven't put enough miles on it yet to comment on oil consumption, but it doesn't smoke enough to embarrass me, so the oil consumption isn't a problem for me.

We droped the sump and found no metal,i was lucky we nipped it early as the car gave me no sighns of what was happening, it was just my mechanic thought it was strange he could not set timing properly other than that the car felt fine, but this was a ticking time bomb.

[Luce]

Mine is megasquirted, and I was triggering off the dizzy and controlling fuel and spark. As I tuned and drove, it would seem better, then worse, better then worse. I was advised that triggering off the dizzy with the centrifugal advance still active ( I was trying to use MS to fudge in a little vacuum advance, but let the dizzy do the mechanical) would wreak havoc on the timing prediction algorithm.

So I then added a trigger wheel on the crank that masked the problem for another 500 miles, until the dizzy was jumping around enough to hit the wrong cylinder at high RPMs. I scratched my head over this one for another 100 miles until it jumped time and wouldn't start.

I lost the entire gear in the pan. I replaced the oil pump, but after disassembling the old one, it looked fine with only a tiny minor mark here and there. I never saw a drop in oil pressure so I guess the bearings are OK.

It's better to fix it and move on... just share your experience and help dink their market share. Honestly, the real problem is in the documentation... or lack of. Had the engine came with a build sheet, I would not have changed the iron gear that came on the new MDS dizzy for a steel one and all would be well. Instead, 2 months after my engine was delivered, I had to look on Ford Racing's website and see somewhere "billet roller cam"

[madmaxx]

Three types of cores. Cast, Sadi cast, forged I think. Forged is the best, the cam shaft between the lobes has a smaller diameter which is the old fashioned forged and best. On your pic the camshaft between the lobes is big indicating a Sadi cast. Please don't ask how I know all this

[68pony]

Originally Posted by Luce

Mine is megasquirted, and I was triggering off the dizzy and controlling fuel and spark. As I tuned and drove, it would seem better, then worse, better then worse. I was advised that triggering off the dizzy with the centrifugal advance still active ( I was trying to use MS to fudge in a little vacuum advance, but let the dizzy do the mechanical) would wreak havoc on the timing prediction algorithm.

So I then added a trigger wheel on the crank that masked the problem for another 500 miles, until the dizzy was jumping around enough to hit the wrong cylinder at high RPMs. I scratched my head over this one for another 100 miles until it jumped time and wouldn't start.

I lost the entire gear in the pan. I replaced the oil pump, but after disassembling the old one, it looked fine with only a tiny minor mark here and there. I never saw a drop in oil pressure so I guess the bearings are OK.

It's better to fix it and move on... just share your experience and help dink their market share. Honestly, the real problem is in the documentation... or lack of. Had the engine came with a build sheet, I would not have changed the iron gear that came on the new MDS dizzy for a steel one and all would be well. Instead, 2 months after my engine was delivered, I had to look on Ford Racing's website and see somewhere "billet roller cam"

I took no chances, I replaced the oil pump there not that expensive and not worth taking the risk, I replaced the lifters as well, blykins supplied me with the cam , lifters and new dizzy gear, here is a pic of my pony

[68pony]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Three types of cores. Cast, Sadi cast, forged I think. Forged is the best, the cam shaft between the lobes has a smaller diameter which is the old fashioned forged and best. On your pic the camshaft between the lobes is big indicating a Sadi cast. Please don't ask how I know all this

Well if your right, there are going to be a lot of other not so happy customers out there, my motor was built in may 2011, I wonder if just some of these motors were fitted with the wrong cam and others the correct one, who knows.