Aluminum heads roller cam

ender2664 · #1 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 02:23 PM

How big a difference will Aluminum heads and a roller cam make if i am not using this as a race car?

Bill D · #2 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 02:51 PM

Depends on the differences in the heads and the cams

DAVID GAGNARD · #3 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 03:24 PM

To get any kind of resonable answer,one would have to know the specs of the enigne as it is and then what heads and cam you would be swapping over to.......

could be anywhere from not much hp gain to a whole lot of hp gain.......

David

Detroit Bill · #4 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 03:53 PM

Don't discount the weight savings for the heads either.

ender2664 · #5 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 03:57 PM

I am currently looking at turn key crate motors ranging from 289-383ci and 370-420hp and most have a roller option. I know the difference between roller and flat in theory but have never owned either.
as for aluminum heads....they just lower weight and dissipate heat better, correct?

DAVID GAGNARD · #6 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender2664

I am currently looking at turn key crate motors ranging from 289-383ci and 370-420hp and most have a roller option. I know the difference between roller and flat in theory but have never owned either.
as for aluminum heads....they just lower weight and dissipate heat better, correct?

Yes and no........Generally speaking aluminum heads will flow better than say a stock cast iron head,but there is a difference in aluminum heads as there is a difference in stock heads..........for instance,Eldlebrock makes 4 or 5 or more small block Ford aluminum heads.....difference is runner size and valve size....flow rates vary also.....

are the heads stock??? have they been ported/polished or otherwise altered from box stock??? makes a difference....

Strictly speaking of swapping out heads,lets use a stock 302 Mustang GT engine,you would gain from 20 to possibly 50 hp with a head swap,depending on the head you are using.......

engine specs will have a lot to do with the hp gain,,,stock engine will gain hp, a modified engine would typically gain more hp because it has more potential to gain hp than a stock engine....

no easy answer unless you had all the specs to consider...

David

RodKnock · #7 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender2664

I am currently looking at turn key crate motors ranging from 289-383ci and 370-420hp and most have a roller option. I know the difference between roller and flat in theory but have never owned either.
as for aluminum heads....they just lower weight and dissipate heat better, correct?

Yes, but the new alloy head offerings get better and better in terms of flow.

The weight savings of just small block heads is really inconsequential to whole equation. Cobras are roughly 2,500 lbs, so 25-30 lbs (or whatever) is a rounding error.

In fact, most people could start running and/or go to the gym and lose 25-30 lbs and achieve the same weight savings as the alloy heads, plus they'll become healthier humans, which shouldn't be "discounted."

cycleguy55 · #8 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 04:28 PM

4 years old, but here are a couple of articles worth reading:
Aftermarket Ford Small-Block Cylinder Heads | Hemmings Motor News
Aftermarket Ford Small-Block Cylinder Heads | Hemmings Motor News

Here's another good one: How to Choose Heads for Your Small-Block Ford Rebuild

Detroit Bill · #9 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Yes, but the new alloy head offerings get better and better in terms of flow.

The weight savings of just small block heads is really inconsequential to whole equation. Cobras are roughly 2,500 lbs, so 25-30 lbs (or whatever) is a rounding error.

In fact, most people could start running and/or go to the gym and lose 25-30 lbs and achieve the same weight savings as the alloy heads, plus they'll become healthier humans, which shouldn't be "discounted."

Yea for me losing 10 pounds is not inconsequential but that's all I need to lose. But I think it is significant because of where it is, up high and in the front. Have you ever put a cast iron head on an engine while it's in the car you might appreciate the significance more. Pull off a cast iron intake and the front rides high. You are trying to build a high performance car after all.

RodKnock · #10 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Yea for me losing 10 pounds is not inconsequential but that's all I need to lose. But I think it is significant because of where it is, up high and in the front. Have you ever put a cast iron head on an engine while it's in the car you might appreciate the significance more. Pull off a cast iron intake and the front rides high. You are trying to build a high performance car after all.

I'm assuming the aluminum intake is there already, in the first place. Not many folks running a cast iron intakes anymore, unless it's a restoration of an original.

As I said, the weight savings is a rounding error. A Kirkham weighs around 2,100 lbs. An SPF weighs around 2,600 lbs. That's 500 lbs savings right there. Of course, for a higher price. There are lots of places to save weight, but the alloy heads should be purchased for flow, not weight savings.

Losing 20 lbs around the middle would do the same thing and you get the benefit of potentially living longer. Alloy heads can't do that.

Three Peaks · #11 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 05:28 PM

Ender2664, aluminum heads and roller cam are really only part of the equation. You don't just install aluminum heads and a cam without a plan for the other parts affected- intake, injection or carb, horsepower needs, how the car will be used, etc..

.From your questions here on the site the last few weeks, it is obvious you need to study a bit about engines, Cobras, etc... to fully understand what you are getting into.
The best route you could take if you don't want to do the homework is to tell us (or a trusted source) what you are looking for and how you intend to use your car and trust the answers you get.
From your questions, I'm pretty convinced you really need to start out with a pretty mild 302 around 275-325 hp and get used to that before moving up to a stouter engine. Trust me, even this level of power will get your adrenaline running in a light car like a Cobra until you learn to control it. Then you can decide where you want to go with the power levels. A good track day with instructor would also be a good investment, IMHO. But I would suggest that to almost anyone who is new to Cobras - or any high performance cars in general.....

Bob

Detroit Bill · #12 (**permalink**) 02-13-2015, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm assuming the aluminum intake is there already, in the first place. Not many folks running a cast iron intakes anymore, unless it's a restoration of an original.

As I said, the weight savings is a rounding error. A Kirkham weighs around 2,100 lbs. An SPF weighs around 2,600 lbs. That's 500 lbs savings right there. Of course, for a higher price. There are lots of places to save weight, but the alloy heads should be purchased for flow, not weight savings.

Losing 20 lbs around the middle would do the same thing and you get the benefit of potentially living longer. Alloy heads can't do that.

So for you 40 pounds is not a lot. I don't think the OP is shopping Kirkhams. How else do you save 40 pounds on a Superformance? Yea if you are carrying extra weight lose it I get that.

RodKnock · #13 (**permalink**) 02-14-2015, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

So for you 40 pounds is not a lot. I don't think the OP is shopping Kirkhams. How else do you save 40 pounds on a Superformance? Yea if you are carrying extra weight lose it I get that.

I would buy the best flowing head for my application. The 30lb or so weight difference is still a rounding error and inconsequential in my mind. HP is the reason I'd buy one head over another.

As for reducing additional weight, there's always magnesium wheels, aluminum bodies, billet aluminum suspension, aluminum differentials, QuickTime bellhousings, etc. and just about everyone could shave some belly fat for further weight reduction for all Cobra applications.

Dwight · #14 (**permalink**) 02-14-2015, 05:39 PM

I would suggest a 351W. Maybe stock. It would be about 350 hp.
Later stroke it to 408 and with the correct intake, cam and heads you will be over 500 hp.
When I changed my heads and intake I gained 80 hp (on the dyno)
I think a lot of it came from the new intake.

Dwight

*13* · #15 (**permalink**) 02-15-2015, 08:40 AM

You may totally be bypassing the point of your exersize. You get a solid 400hp out of a non roller, non aluminum head motor, you may be sitting pretty happy. That's a lot of power for these small cars. Big hp gains are pretty important on long accelerations. As has been talked about in much detail, here. Big block cars with heavy engines have a tough time managing the twisty's, in comparison to the small block cars. They really shine when the road straightens out. Finding a compromise might be a goal to chase.

ender2664 · #16 (**permalink**) 02-15-2015, 08:54 AM

All the reading I have done leads me to these conclusions...
if I were to buy an engine making the power i want and knew I wasnt going to upgrade, except for weight, neither really matters.
however if I thought one day I might want to get more power out of it it would smart to get a roller set up in case I wanted to run a big cam in the future.